Macca

Hi All,

I bought a beautifully crafted DachX non cat pipe (bischoff) for my 1994 993 earlier in the year and my mechanic tried to install it today. He claims he cant get it to fit. Is he missing something? His comments are that the pipe hooks up perfecly to the exchangers but seems too long where it joins the mufflers forcing them to be offset and making it impossible to re install the factory motorsport exhaust tips (see pictures below).

Im sure he/we are missing something here as no one I have read on this board has ever had an issue with the fitment of these pipes (infact the contrary seems true).

Please help?? Cant drive the car till I get it sorted...

PS. Chris - I have pm'd you but couldnt attach these pics.....

Cheers
M

Mark in Baltimore

Have no issues with my Bischoff X pipe sans cat. Have you tried contacting Chris?

bart1

Did you happen to get a widebody one?

geolab

This is totally normal.
You have a ROW car.
I had the same issue.
What you need to do is remove the muffler supports that are held on engine, and bend them to offset the mufflers a tad to the rear.
once your mufflers sit few centimeters to the rear, you could center the outlets.
I took it the easy way, and did not hook the mufflers to the support with the muffler small hook, just
held them with the muffler straps momentarily
All this will protrude the tips out of bumper a good 5 centimeters.
Don't ask me why, this is not logic, same heat exchangers, same mufflers, same muffler support part numbers
between US and ROW.

alexl911

Hi Macca,

I've also ordered a set (but with 200cell cats) and live in Germany. I wonder if I will also have the same fitment issues? How long did you have to wait for your CAT? It's now been around 12 weeks for mine!

BTW, your car has German plates -do you live in New Zealand or in Germany?

Macca

Geolab - you are a star! Owe you a beer when your down under LOL! Sounds like a ROW fitment issue. Us ROW owners are few and far between on this board and I have more than once bought mods which work different, fit different etc on an ROW 993. Sometimes they havent worked at all so I was hoping this wasnt one of those cases. I will pass on your wisdom to my mechanic and we will hopefully resolve today. Thanks again.

Alexl911. thanks for your email. I was lucky when I bought my catless set they already has a set in stock so they only took maybe less than 4 weeks end to end. I think you will have the same issue as me so make a note of the required proceedure and I will update you on how I go. Anyone form the UK will also be in the same boat and Im suprised more UK 993 owners havent yet responded - maybe very few have DachX. I have german style plates but the car is registered in NZ. You can order German plates online and give them your plate number and they make them and send them to you!

Cheers
M

CorrdoBrit

That's cool. And legal too I guess.

Not quite as aesthetically pleasing but far better than the std plate here in TX, just ordered one of these designs for my GPW 993.....

alexl911

Thanks for the info... I hope Chris puts together some fitment instructions for the RoW cars. I know that there's a set in France and in the U.K. I also wonder why there's been more issues posted?

German style plates in NZ? The Germans would never allow that!

Did you happen to see my plate? I was surprised when I ordered it online and was able to secure "C993" and didn't coat anything extra. Ironically, if I owned my registration in the UK it would be worth mega $$$$ Alas, in Germany they don't trade registration numbers like the do in the UK.

Macca

I have often noticed your plate and though it was a personalised one. In NZ personalised ones are cheap compared to the Uk and elsewhere.

I order mine from this site. You should check it out. Ive used them for years and the product is to TUV standard. brilliant range of products:

www.licenseplates.tv

Im not 100% sure this is a ROW issue yet. I think Geolab is onto something as his car is ROW like mine and hes the only person Ive read on this board that has had an issue. If there is a UK rennlister that has Dach X Id love to hear from them and compare notes. Its hard to understand why there should be a difference in the positioning of the exhaust hardware. I have from previous esperience found there is an incredible amount of variance between individual 993s so this could be part of it but i have also found a number of subtle differences between mod installation on US vs ROW 993s. My car was late 1993 build (i.e. very early production RHD 993) so there could be a clue there. Will update everyone over the next few days when it becomes apparent how we can make this all fit to satisfaction.....

Cheers
M

Macca

CorrdoBrit,

Love you car by the way. Nice plate!

Cheers
M

Macca

Guys. Further news from our mechanic this morning.

He doesnt believe moving the mufflers will make up the 30mm difference of the pipes over the original cat. Geolab or Chris can you chime in with your views.....

This one has everone stumped. At the moment we are looking at possibly cutting and welding the pipe - but I really would rather not mess with Daches creation....

Help?

Cheers
M

Van1

I too had some issues installing a DACH X pipe last year for similar issues. Mine was a Gillet application but it also spread the mufflers too far apart. Mine wasn't as bad as yours but the DACH was still wider than the stock cat by about 20mm total from what I recall. I was able to get the muffler tips to fit in the bumper cutouts by slightly angling them inwards. Yours is obviously not going to work in this fashion. The part of the DACH that attached to the heat exchangers was also short by 10mm total on mine. I had to really torque down on the heat exhcanger flange bolts in order to draw everything together. I thought I was going to snap the bolts. However, the welding job was fantastic but I think the jig was off.

In the end I took the DACH off not because of the fit but because I didn't care for the stink my 993 made with no cats.

Macca

Thanks for your insight Van1. Ive brought an exhaust specialist into the mix (designed racing systems) to give me some advise "on the shop floor". At this stage the mechanic isnt convinced he can create enough "play" with the heat exchangers and moving the muffler mounting points but we will try. Worse case is a cut and shut job or heat and bend. Issue with that approach is getting the angles right for mating the joints between muffler and pipe. I really had hoped it would be plug and play.....

Cheers
M

993inNC

I suppose its after the fact now, but you should not have torqued on the exchanger bolts, simply loosening the heat exchanger bolts would have made up for the difference with no gap. You must keep in mind, these cars are hand made as are the pipes and with no slip joints we have to take the "happy medium" when it comes to fitment tolerances, otherwise we'd need every car here to make a set of pipes for it.

As for the ROW issue, this is the first I've heard of these fit problems (after all the years we've been doing it). I don't know how to direct you since I don't have an ROW car here to inspect. We try and build a little fluff into the pipes for adjustment. The exchanger holes are larger than necessary to allow the pipes to be "rolled" forward towards the front of the car and "up" as much as possible. The pipes have always run close to the muffler pipes but something is certainly different. All pipes are built via jig so it must be a difference in the ROW's, but I'm at a loss as to what
I know its an early car, I wonder if there are differences there. Porsche did crazy things during transition times (95/96) maybe there's something there.
I can understand a few millimeters, as jigs get old, warp over time etc,.....but to be that far off, something is different. If you choose to cut and weld, do it at the weld, there will be some pipe in the pipe (make sense?) that should come out then it can be TIG welded back together, I would do it with the pipe on the car and mounted. Mount to the muff first, then weld. I'm sorry that's all I have to offer for ideas.

Macca

Thanks Chris. Not sure where we will go with this as Porsche mechanic probabably wont want to do the welding in house so may have to send the car to an exhaust specialist for that work.

I have asked we give everything one final fit and giggle using all advice posted here to see if we can get anywhere near an acceptable result without conducting surgery. That will happen tommorow. However I do conceed that the variances look too great to overcome on face value so I suspect we may have to make some more critical decisions shortly.

Im not sure if this is a ROW issue or an early build issue (my car made in Nov 1993). I dobt the latter as our Paris correspondant has reported similar issue and his is a much later model car. Our German friend may want to chip in when his arrive and are installed.

If there appears to be a pattern may be worth advising potential ROW purchasers in advance. Landed he pipes were over 1100 usd here with freight and tax chargers. I doubt it will be viable to build a jig for these even if you could fine a car for a template. It would probably be better to leave the final section unwelded in that case so they can slip fit and weld to their geometry.

Anyway we will know the outcome soon and hopefully learn something positive along the way. They are a beautifully crafted piece....

Cheers

M