Can't decide, RWD vs 4WD, narrow body vs "S"
04-05-2010, 01:40 PM
#16
No disrespect intended, but chances are, whether C4 or C2, either will be more car than you are driver. Also, any excessive understeer can be dialed out with a properly sorted suspension.
My advice would be to find the example that matches most what you envision in your mind. That way, whichever model you wind up with, you'll be happy.
My advice would be to find the example that matches most what you envision in your mind. That way, whichever model you wind up with, you'll be happy.
04-05-2010, 04:03 PM
#17
Rennlist Member
If I lived in CA, I would buy RWD only. As for your WB vs NB arguments, you may be splitting hairs. I doubt you will ever notice a performance difference between both platforms. Buy whatever makes you happy.
04-05-2010, 04:16 PM
#18
Drifting
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If it has to be this year, get started now.
I expect that you have at least "top 3" color preferences and you don't want to travel too far. If you have a set budget, body style and transmission type in mind, want lots of records and no body damage, the car will find you, and WB/NB RWD/AWD won't matter a wit. It seems hard to justify spending more than $35K on a NB these days.
Start by trolling here, Pelican and Panorama for enthusiast-owned cars with high-dollar reversible mods done, such as wheels and "mandatory" suspension restoration.
I expect that you have at least "top 3" color preferences and you don't want to travel too far. If you have a set budget, body style and transmission type in mind, want lots of records and no body damage, the car will find you, and WB/NB RWD/AWD won't matter a wit. It seems hard to justify spending more than $35K on a NB these days.
Start by trolling here, Pelican and Panorama for enthusiast-owned cars with high-dollar reversible mods done, such as wheels and "mandatory" suspension restoration.
04-05-2010, 04:18 PM
#19
Addicted Specialist
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When I first bought my 993 many years ago, it was (and still is) my "Dream Car" that represents one of those things "you've always wanted but had to wait for." I once made excuses that my Dream Car was "only" a 95 w/o varioram or was "only" a narrowbody. Ha!! Now I embrace the fact that I made these choices. Were I to do it again, a narrowbody and wingless tail IS what I would look for, not to mention OBD-1 doesn't offer the headaches I've witnessd from the later "more advanced" system.
Moral of the story: get what you really like and don't obsess over model nuances. They are all 993, and the features which appeal to you make make a greater difference in how you feel about the car than they do on the road or track. So decide on the model that speaks to you, settle on a choice of colors and features, decide what are "deal breaker" items, then go from there.
Edward
Moral of the story: get what you really like and don't obsess over model nuances. They are all 993, and the features which appeal to you make make a greater difference in how you feel about the car than they do on the road or track. So decide on the model that speaks to you, settle on a choice of colors and features, decide what are "deal breaker" items, then go from there.
Edward
04-05-2010, 04:28 PM
#20
Three Wheelin'
If it has to be this year, get started now.
I expect that you have at least "top 3" color preferences and you don't want to travel too far. If you have a set budget, body style and transmission type in mind, want lots of records and no body damage, the car will find you, and WB/NB RWD/AWD won't matter a wit. It seems hard to justify spending more than $35K on a NB these days.
Start by trolling here, Pelican and Panorama for enthusiast-owned cars with high-dollar reversible mods done, such as wheels and "mandatory" suspension restoration.
I expect that you have at least "top 3" color preferences and you don't want to travel too far. If you have a set budget, body style and transmission type in mind, want lots of records and no body damage, the car will find you, and WB/NB RWD/AWD won't matter a wit. It seems hard to justify spending more than $35K on a NB these days.
Start by trolling here, Pelican and Panorama for enthusiast-owned cars with high-dollar reversible mods done, such as wheels and "mandatory" suspension restoration.
04-05-2010, 04:35 PM
#21
Now on my 3rd C2S....since Daryl wouldn't sell me his I had to go find another one this spring.
Have no regrets and cannot tell the difference between ride and handling between the NB and the WB.
But you gotta like big butts to appreciate the S
p.s. Daryl...we need to do a Farmington Valley run sometime soon!
Have no regrets and cannot tell the difference between ride and handling between the NB and the WB.
But you gotta like big butts to appreciate the S
p.s. Daryl...we need to do a Farmington Valley run sometime soon!
04-05-2010, 04:42 PM
#22
I agree with others who say get the nicest 993 you can. If you were looking at a 964 I would recommend you get a C2, but for 993s the viscous coupling system in the C4 is transparant (IIRC 95% of the power is sent to rear wheels in normal conditions)and as Ilko mentions all 993 C4/C4S cars have the rear locking differential. It is much more important to find a no-accident car in top shape than to worry about C2 vs C4 vs C2S vs C4S. If your budget is $25k-$35k get a nice C2 or C4 narrow body. If your budget is over $35k you can start to look at the wide body cars too.
04-05-2010, 04:44 PM
#23
Now on my 3rd C2S....since Daryl wouldn't sell me his I had to go find another one this spring.
Have no regrets and cannot tell the difference between ride and handling between the NB and the WB.
But you gotta like big butts to appreciate the S
p.s. Daryl...we need to do a Farmington Valley run sometime soon!
Have no regrets and cannot tell the difference between ride and handling between the NB and the WB.
But you gotta like big butts to appreciate the S
p.s. Daryl...we need to do a Farmington Valley run sometime soon!
04-05-2010, 04:44 PM
#24
Rennlist Member
I only wanted a C4S because I thought the badging was really cool on the back. Yes - this was part of my reason for liking it, crazy as it sounded. And, I had spun out in my 88 Carrera once in the rain causing $6k in damage so I vowed if I ever got a newer car, it would be AWD. SOOOOOO glad I got one. It's awesome.
The wider hips get a lot of attention. Construction men cat call at me as I drive by instead of hot, blonde women
.
The red brakes are a seriously eye catching.
The front end looks nicer too with that turbo type body.
Oh yeah... go with the C4S if it appeals to you. Worth every penny.
The wider hips get a lot of attention. Construction men cat call at me as I drive by instead of hot, blonde women
.The red brakes are a seriously eye catching.
The front end looks nicer too with that turbo type body.
Oh yeah... go with the C4S if it appeals to you. Worth every penny.
04-05-2010, 05:27 PM
#25
Addicted Specialist
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Wait a minute!!!
...your getting cat calls from guys at construction sites instead of from hot women is a plus??? ...ok, to each his own.
You got a Village People CD in your car?
Edward
...your getting cat calls from guys at construction sites instead of from hot women is a plus??? ...ok, to each his own.
You got a Village People CD in your car?
Edward
04-05-2010, 06:29 PM
#26
04-05-2010, 07:07 PM
#27
Drifting
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04-05-2010, 07:58 PM
#28
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This is why it should be illegal for some to have access to keyboards.............
As said above in quantity, find the car YOU LIKE BEST within YOUR BUDGET.
But back to the "differences"--I challenge anyone who has two or more 3.6L cars to document same day, same track, how any of the platforms are fundamentally different. (Data showing terminal speeds, throttle application points, brake pressure traces, etc.) I take the C4S, yellow car, and RSA out back-to-back-to-back, and I drive them exactly the same. Wholly different experiences, based on the modifications to each, but the style is the same. (And yes, though not same day, that has even applied to AWD v. RWD.......even torsion bar 930.........in the wet.)
As said above in quantity, find the car YOU LIKE BEST within YOUR BUDGET.
But back to the "differences"--I challenge anyone who has two or more 3.6L cars to document same day, same track, how any of the platforms are fundamentally different. (Data showing terminal speeds, throttle application points, brake pressure traces, etc.) I take the C4S, yellow car, and RSA out back-to-back-to-back, and I drive them exactly the same. Wholly different experiences, based on the modifications to each, but the style is the same. (And yes, though not same day, that has even applied to AWD v. RWD.......even torsion bar 930.........in the wet.)
Thanks for the kind comment ! If you read my guide that's pretty much what I conclude, so you see what you're stating in big capital letters, I said already:
"Unless you are an absolute purist the same could be said about the C2/C4 decision. Find the very best car you can for your budget; a 2 or a 4, varioram or the earlier 272ps car will all give you the true 993 experience."
But to come back to your point. The WB drives differently... fact. Ask yourself what the differences are between the two cars then consider that if you drive any car for 10 miles then lower the tyre pressures by just 1 psi then drive it again, it will drive differently ... FACT. The mechanical and physical differences between a NB and WB amount to something far far greater that just 1 psi of air pressure. So you see, whether you like it or not, whether you have an interest to protect or not, they drive differently.
And you don't need to be a hero to notice it, same with C2 + C4. No shortage of people round here who would agree with me as well, including Phil Raby. Google him if you like.. he's driven pretty much every 911 variant that's ever been created and knows a thing or two.
Last edited by jackal2513; 04-05-2010 at 08:29 PM.
04-05-2010, 08:19 PM
#29
You're absolutely right. And you beat me in responding to this lame response.
Ken has a tendency to quantify everything in terms of race track data. These are street cars, and if he actually spent some thinking about the OP's question, he'd realize that the OP will primarily use his car on the street.
To the OP: for some of us there are distinct difference in feel between the C2 and C4 and NB and WB cars. For me personally, I would not buy anything but a NB C2 because I prefer the feel of this iteration (the C4, C4S, and TT have a distinctly different clutch/steering/shifter feel). They all may turn similar times on a ractrack (save the TT), but I couldn't care less. The "best" car is the one that feels best to you.
As for your concerns re: handling at the limit, I wouldn't overthink this issue. I currently daily drive an E30 325is (M3 steering/suspension, Koni yellows, and adj camber front/rear) and used to daily drive an E30 M3 2.5. The limits of the 993 are way above either of those two cars. You'll be fine.
Cheers,
Joe
Ken has a tendency to quantify everything in terms of race track data. These are street cars, and if he actually spent some thinking about the OP's question, he'd realize that the OP will primarily use his car on the street.
To the OP: for some of us there are distinct difference in feel between the C2 and C4 and NB and WB cars. For me personally, I would not buy anything but a NB C2 because I prefer the feel of this iteration (the C4, C4S, and TT have a distinctly different clutch/steering/shifter feel). They all may turn similar times on a ractrack (save the TT), but I couldn't care less. The "best" car is the one that feels best to you.
As for your concerns re: handling at the limit, I wouldn't overthink this issue. I currently daily drive an E30 325is (M3 steering/suspension, Koni yellows, and adj camber front/rear) and used to daily drive an E30 M3 2.5. The limits of the 993 are way above either of those two cars. You'll be fine.
Cheers,
Joe
Thanks for the comment ! If you read my guide, that's pretty much what my guide states:
"Unless you are an absolute purist the same could be said about the C2/C4 decision. Find the very best car you can for your budget; a 2 or a 4, varioram or the earlier 272ps car will all give you the true 993 experience."
But to come back to your point. The WB drives differently... fact. Ask yourself what the differences are between the two cars then consider that if you drive any car for 10 miles then lower the pressures by just 1 psi then drive it again, it will drive differently ... FACT. The mechanical and physical differences between a NB and WB amount to something significantly greater that just 1 psi. So you see, whether you like it or not, whether you have an interest to protect or not, they drive differently.
And you don't need to be a hero to notice it, same with C2 + C4. No shortage of people round here who would agree with me as well, including Phil Raby. Google him if you like.. he's driven pretty much every 911 variant that's ever been created and knows a thing or two.
"Unless you are an absolute purist the same could be said about the C2/C4 decision. Find the very best car you can for your budget; a 2 or a 4, varioram or the earlier 272ps car will all give you the true 993 experience."
But to come back to your point. The WB drives differently... fact. Ask yourself what the differences are between the two cars then consider that if you drive any car for 10 miles then lower the pressures by just 1 psi then drive it again, it will drive differently ... FACT. The mechanical and physical differences between a NB and WB amount to something significantly greater that just 1 psi. So you see, whether you like it or not, whether you have an interest to protect or not, they drive differently.
And you don't need to be a hero to notice it, same with C2 + C4. No shortage of people round here who would agree with me as well, including Phil Raby. Google him if you like.. he's driven pretty much every 911 variant that's ever been created and knows a thing or two.
04-05-2010, 08:41 PM
#30
For me, the widebody 993 is the best looking car ever build in Stuttgart. Unfortunately, they are generally more expensive but the prices came down recently. When I had a chance to a get a nice one (4S or 2S) I went for it. As it has been said before, there is no big difference in how they drive and if you go to the track once a year this becomes irrelevant.
Other advantages of the S: Turbo front bumper, 18" wheels (can be added for some $ to a carrera S)
Other advantages of the 4S: Big Red brakes, all wheel (if you need it)
This picture summarizes my key thoughts:
Other advantages of the S: Turbo front bumper, 18" wheels (can be added for some $ to a carrera S)
Other advantages of the 4S: Big Red brakes, all wheel (if you need it)
This picture summarizes my key thoughts: