Hi_Fi_Guy

Let me share today's test drive with you and solicit a few opinions. Would you move forward to the Pre-Purchase Inspection stage or pass on the car?

Took a 1997 Porsche Carrera Targa with 60,000 miles out for a spin this afternoon. Second 993 I have driven, so my comparisons are based on the '95 coupe I test drove in December.

Exterior & Interior: Above average condition for the age but no garage queen. One fog light lens cracked the other foglight loose inside the bumper. Found 3 very small stone chips on the body and one door ding. Carpet under the mats looks very worn. No obvious signs of water ingress or damage inside. Targa top & interior screen operates fully each time if not smoothly. Windshield rattles while driving.

Front and rear compartments: clean with no signs of wear, rust, or fluid leaks.
Wheels: No signs of curb rash on wheels

Immobilizer required many tries before car would start. No predictable sequence of button pushing for starting the car. When the car started I thought the idle sounded high although eventually it settled down to 900 RPM. Oil temp gauge appeared to be non functional or at least stayed very low throughout the drive.

Car drives nicely but definitely not meticulously maintained or upgraded in any way. Brakes feel good. Handling is good, actually better than I expected for a stock Targa with no upgrades that is more than likely still on its original shocks and springs. Plenty of power in the lower gears but doesn't feel or sound as smooth and clean as the coupe I drove. The real disappointment was the clutch feel. Way too much clutch travel before finding the friction zone and the clutch pedal was way to stiff, stiffer than my old race prepped 914. Really made the car feel like it was from the 1970's instead of the 1990's. I have a feeling clutch has never been replaced and may be adjusted beyond usefulness. Halfway through the test drive we came upon a wreck and had to sit through some stop & go traffic. The clutch was killer and the check engine light came on. After that the idle would rise over 1200 when the clutch was depressed.

Upon returning from the drive I could smell a bit of hot or burning oil. Popped the rear lid and found no visible leaks. No visible leaks under car either. Test drive while not terrible revealed the car has issues.

The car is more of a shower than a goer and a few items need to be looked after. Owner is open to a pre-purchase inspection but there were enough signs of neglect that I'm more than a bit skittish. VIN checks out on Autocheck which is good. Owner has next to zero service history which is bad.

What say ye oh wise Rennlisters, PPI or walk away?

TRINITONY

What is the asking price?

Hi_Fi_Guy

Price would be considered market correct to slightly high if the car had/has no real issues. A PPI could be a negotiating tool or a clear sign to run away.

Stealth 993

1. The immobilizer needs to be shut off before the car will start. To do this, you can either lock/unlock before you start, or just turn the key till the immobilizer light turns on, then hit the alarm button, then start the car.

2. idle, normal for a cold car, they surge up then settle down. It will even oscillate a bit. But should settle down in 10-15 sec max.

3. You didn't state the miles, but you may need a new clutch, or at least a good fluid change, I bet it's been a long time since it was done & might have a lot of moisture in it. The clutches are heaver then most modern cars, & don't quite have the feel of modern cars. This is part of the classic feel of a 993. Clutches are WEAR items & need to get replaced, & is not a deal breaker unless the asking price is to high.

4. CEL (check engine light) It can be triggered by a bad battery, like it was dead & was jump started. Best thing is to read the codes. But it sounds like maybe you have a vacuum leak, bad MAF, or the car just need to have the ICV cleaned. Low battery codes usually have a couple from the CCU (HVAC system).

Only you can decide if it's a deal breaker, or worth getting further into. Based on what you stated, a 993 might not be the car for you.

Black993

I would agree. Need to find out what code it threw. My clutch is heavy too, but its because it needs to be replaced (like yesterday!). That said, the car has always had a very mechanical and raw feel to it, which is part of the allure.

Also, from what I've read here, the imobilizer can be a HUGE nightmare. I'm lucky in that the 95's didn't have them, at least not the early ones. I've read horror stories around here about having it replaced, or having it go bad. Make sure you know how to operate it, then observe its behavior. To me, if it was goofy its a deal-breaker because of how integrated into the car it is.

porschemikeandnancy

Here's my $.02 worth. Targas are rare. In the long haul, probably will return a fair amount of you cost (only exceeded by Cabs).

None of the issues you've encountered are beyond what is normally takes to get a 993 into the shape you want it to. If it has original paint (not a repaint), I'm guessing even if it needs a clutch, with fussing around with the electronics, oil leaks (common from the valve covers), you're probably talking under $5,000 to put the car in top notch shape.

I'd get the PPI (mine cost about $150 and identified about $3k worth of "needs this and that") and then decide. Use it as part of the price negotiation. It sounds to me like the previous owner(s) knew they were going to dump the car and let several things go for the next owner.

matt777

Is this the one I told you about? Yikes. Unless you really need this Targa I would be inclined to walk away. It sounds like it needs a new clutch and likely a 60k service at minimum. I would be turned off by the fact it has no service records. The oil smell indicates it leaks and probably from the valve covers. No big deal but it potentially indicates a lack of general upkeep which is consistent with the CEL and the clutch issue. I don't doubt some people elect to sell rather than put money into the car. The price isn't exactly a bargain (although I can't say that I'm in touch with Targa prices specifically) and the fact it has no upgrades is not a plus to me. You could be looking at $5k+ with a major service, clutch and new suspension. Now there is a black/black '95 coupe up here with sport seats and 36k miles you should look at.... (no affiliation) Unfortunately its too far from me to check it out.

Hi_Fi_Guy

Thanks for the feedback. I feel 50/50 and that seems to be reflected in the advice thus far. At this point I'm leaning toward a PPI and then go from there. I may be out a few hundred if I walk away but I like the car enough to find out all the details.

raspberryroadster

i would not purchase a 993 or 964 p-car that did not exhibit care & attention (rattles, poor engagement of the clutch, etc would be instant turn off, esp. in a targa or cab). my 92 cab which i've had for a yr. has same mileage as the car you are considering - stock suspension, not a rattle or a squeak-rock solid. starts & idles 1st time at correct rpm. reason - prior owner attended to regular maintenance/care/attention.
there are just too many fine examples of these cars around - be prepared to travel for a 1st rate example rather than buy 2nd rate local example.
i am sure local rennlist assistance will be available to sort out local independent p.p.i. source.

JimPA

Leaking valve covers are normal for these cars and a nuisance. Some people just live with them until more serious repair needs arise. There may be a "lack of upkeep" on the car you're considering but you'd need to base that assessment on more than leaky covers. Possibly, the current owner is staring at these repair costs and decided to "invest" elsewhere.

You never know what you might find when opening an engine. At 80K, my covers were leaking but there were no known issues or codes. Fixing the covers and doing a top end rebuild and clutch as well as other typical "while in there" items was the plan. Some unexpected things popped up. The tab: $10K in parts and $7K labor. The car now also has a new clutch, valve covers, valves, adjusters, guides, cams, rockers, chain rail, an SAI cleanout, head work, MAF, seals and other odds and ends. Expensive, but worth it to me, and the car should be good for at least another 10 years/80K miles.

Mark in Baltimore

What is market price for a '97 Targa?

g_murray

"...be prepared to travel for a 1st rate example rather than buy 2nd rate local example."

What HE said.

Gerry

95 NC 993

It really depends on the price. If you were able to buy it on the 'low side' then that leaves you plenty of money to make the car right. Why bother with a PPI if he won't budge from the current 'average to high' price since you have listed so many 'needs' already? Just walk if he won't lower the price right from the beginning.

matt777

I know its normal to have to fix leaky covers periodically. I based the comment on the fact that it needs a clutch and there are no maintenance records. The owner should at least have had the 60k service record even if they only bought the car recently and didn't get the historic records. I assume the 60k wasn't done. You would think the owner would bring this up as a selling point if it had just be done.

68CGPlt

I personally would hold off on this car. I would continue your search to become a little more familiar with other examples out there. Based on your description I get the feeling that this car will have some underlying issues that you'll identify after purchase and never mind the fact that it appears to need a clutch and attention to the CEL. If the price is right and your looking for a project then go for it. Working on these cars is a great deal of fun and really adds to the ownership experience IMO. My recommendation is be patient and find the car that is 80/20 in your mind and not 50/50, you'll most likely be more satisfied in the end.