"ZDDP" Enhanced Racing Oil
01-04-2010, 07:08 PM
#1
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"ZDDP" Enhanced Racing Oil
Had my engine oil/hydraulic fluids changed at my local Porsche shop - instead of using Mobil 1 (I've always used that stuff) they suggested to go with Brad Penn Racing Oil 20W50 (the green oil). Main benefit is its ZDDP enhanced (ZDDP = Zinc Dialkyl-Dithio-Phosphate), which works as a friction barrier inside the engine to prevent premature wear especially to the cams/valves. I understand ZDDP was removed sometimes in the 80's due to environmental concerns and the introduction of the catalytix converter. My shop guys enjoy an excellent reputation in our area, and they take care of many of the vehicles belonging to local PCA members. They are also very involved in PCA driving events, which includes preparing cars for racing so I have all reason to believe they know what they are talking about! Needless to say I'm running this type oil now in my 993 as well...
However, what do you think?!
Regards, Andre'
However, what do you think?!
Regards, Andre'
01-04-2010, 07:29 PM
#2
Race Director
Do a search on Brad Penn oil here, there's LOTS of info. To cut to the chase, yes, very good oil (per the experts, I'm not one of them). But since it's not synthetic it needs to be changed about every 3 - 5k mi. Again, search will give you a great deal of info.
01-04-2010, 09:03 PM
#3
Drifting
You can read for days when it comes to oil threads. 
I'm am certainly not an expert but I do know that the wear additives were not removed from oils. Many oils had the levels lowered to meet emissions requirements (Zn and P / ZDDP). These levels are all dictated by API and the likes. In addition, modern engines have roller cams that can get away with less Zn and P. Many of the higher viscosity oils ie 15W50 and 20W50 seem to be exempt from having to have these lower levels and are a safer bet for our engines. Some are advertised as racing or motorcycle oils. I believe the negative effects from using oils with lower additive levels will not be seen for many many miles so it will be a long time before you know what the impact is. I find the difficulty is when you want to use lower viscosity oils like 5W40. The selection of suitable oils is then slim. Formulations have changed. As for the Brad Penn 20W50, it is recommended by some of the folks who have done testing. Do your homework on the specific oil you would like to use.
I'm am certainly not an expert but I do know that the wear additives were not removed from oils. Many oils had the levels lowered to meet emissions requirements (Zn and P / ZDDP). These levels are all dictated by API and the likes. In addition, modern engines have roller cams that can get away with less Zn and P. Many of the higher viscosity oils ie 15W50 and 20W50 seem to be exempt from having to have these lower levels and are a safer bet for our engines. Some are advertised as racing or motorcycle oils. I believe the negative effects from using oils with lower additive levels will not be seen for many many miles so it will be a long time before you know what the impact is. I find the difficulty is when you want to use lower viscosity oils like 5W40. The selection of suitable oils is then slim. Formulations have changed. As for the Brad Penn 20W50, it is recommended by some of the folks who have done testing. Do your homework on the specific oil you would like to use.
01-04-2010, 09:56 PM
#4
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On my '67 912, I use Valvoline Racing Oil. It came recommended by my mechanic who has been building 356 engines for racing and streets for over 35 years. This oil has high ZDDP and provides the zinc the older engines need. On the bottle is clearly says, for non-street use only. The reason for this is that the zinc will destroy the catalytic converter. Obviously 912 never had a catalytic converter.
On the 993, I have had numerous people, street mechanics, race mechanics, and various 993 owners swear by the Mobil 1 0w40. When asked what type oil to use, there is no hesitation. All, read that all, swear by the Mobil 1 0w40. Just read that the Audi R8, also recommends the same oil.
On the 993, I have had numerous people, street mechanics, race mechanics, and various 993 owners swear by the Mobil 1 0w40. When asked what type oil to use, there is no hesitation. All, read that all, swear by the Mobil 1 0w40. Just read that the Audi R8, also recommends the same oil.
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01-04-2010, 11:31 PM
#10
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I only have a basic understanding of oil, but here it goes....
All oils, whether synthetic or dino, have an additive package. The ad package varies from company to company and this is what defines many of the "protective" properties we associate with oil, for example properties for changing viscosity, how stable the viscosity is kept for the life of the oil, stability at different temperatures, it's ability to "absorb" water and other contaminants, and of course, the ability to protect metal surfaces from wear. Just to name a few.
The main advantage of synthetic base stock over dino base stock (additives not included) is its ability to flow more consistently at different temperatures. For this reason, many people automatically assume that synthetic is always better than dino. But in fact, if the additive package in the synthetic is not so great and you compare it to Brad Penn which uses high quality dino base stock and high quality additives, then the answer is not so clear. Especially if you are comparing Brad Penn Racing to say the new (see next paragraph) Mobil 1 15w50, I would pick the Brad Penn.
Most oils meeting "popular" specs i.e. 10w30, 10w40, 15w40, 20w-50, etc, etc, have changed recently (within the last 2 years) to meet newly formulated API specs. One (possibly the main) reason for the change is to protect emissions equipment like catalytic converters. The theory being that the additives in oil mainly the zinc in ZDDP (that had historically provided wear protection on metal-to-metal contacting surfaces) would damage and make the catalysts less effective.
If an oil meets the new API standards, then by definition that means they have a significantly lower amount of ZDDP. Some of the oil manufacturers have substituted an additive package that according to them, provides the "necessary and sufficient" wear protection. Some say that these new additives are not providing sufficient protection on engines with high lift hydraulic cams where the metal to metal contact pressure is greater than your typical tarus, so although the new oil specs work OK for the tarus and a lot of other cars as well, some argue it is not OK for any of the air cooled engines.
Bottom line, the best known way to protect your engine is to use an oil that has ZDDP in the 1200 PPM range. ZDDP is more important than synthetic vs dino. You can buy additives to add to any oil or you can buy an oil that already has the required ZDDP content. If you want to make doubly sure that your oil has sufficient ZDDP, send a sample of the new oil and have it analyzed.
Hope that helps.
All oils, whether synthetic or dino, have an additive package. The ad package varies from company to company and this is what defines many of the "protective" properties we associate with oil, for example properties for changing viscosity, how stable the viscosity is kept for the life of the oil, stability at different temperatures, it's ability to "absorb" water and other contaminants, and of course, the ability to protect metal surfaces from wear. Just to name a few.
The main advantage of synthetic base stock over dino base stock (additives not included) is its ability to flow more consistently at different temperatures. For this reason, many people automatically assume that synthetic is always better than dino. But in fact, if the additive package in the synthetic is not so great and you compare it to Brad Penn which uses high quality dino base stock and high quality additives, then the answer is not so clear. Especially if you are comparing Brad Penn Racing to say the new (see next paragraph) Mobil 1 15w50, I would pick the Brad Penn.
Most oils meeting "popular" specs i.e. 10w30, 10w40, 15w40, 20w-50, etc, etc, have changed recently (within the last 2 years) to meet newly formulated API specs. One (possibly the main) reason for the change is to protect emissions equipment like catalytic converters. The theory being that the additives in oil mainly the zinc in ZDDP (that had historically provided wear protection on metal-to-metal contacting surfaces) would damage and make the catalysts less effective.
If an oil meets the new API standards, then by definition that means they have a significantly lower amount of ZDDP. Some of the oil manufacturers have substituted an additive package that according to them, provides the "necessary and sufficient" wear protection. Some say that these new additives are not providing sufficient protection on engines with high lift hydraulic cams where the metal to metal contact pressure is greater than your typical tarus, so although the new oil specs work OK for the tarus and a lot of other cars as well, some argue it is not OK for any of the air cooled engines.
Bottom line, the best known way to protect your engine is to use an oil that has ZDDP in the 1200 PPM range. ZDDP is more important than synthetic vs dino. You can buy additives to add to any oil or you can buy an oil that already has the required ZDDP content. If you want to make doubly sure that your oil has sufficient ZDDP, send a sample of the new oil and have it analyzed.
Hope that helps.
01-04-2010, 11:53 PM
#12
Race Car
01-05-2010, 11:14 AM
#14
Drifting
If we don't talk about oil now and then we are just going to end up with threads about cleaning with Xenit and pics of pristine undercarriages. This will leave some of us feeling mighty inadequate as we will never be this OC. 
I like the odd oil thread.
I like the odd oil thread.
