RFMASSA

Again thanks Andrew for your additional info on the parts. Nothing is cheap on a Porsche, is it.

RFMASSA

Andrew,

I am curious, in that when you reworked your targa roof, were you able to do all the work with the glasss open? It gets a little cramped in the car trying to get to everything especially if you have to do something with the blind, and it can only be deployed if the glass is closed. Or did you have a bypass that allowed the glass to be open and also be able to operate the shade back and forth?
-Ray

Amfab

If remember correctly, I reassembled the Sun Blind stuff while the Glass Roof was open–with the Roof in place in the tracks, but disconnected from the drive cables so it could be slid back. There is a chance my memory is not serving me well and I put all the Blind stuff in place before I put the Glass Roof back in the car.

I doubt I would install the Sun Blind stuff with the Glass Roof out of the car because the Glass Roof is such a bear to get in and out because the clearances are so tight, and the Sun Blind stuff would just make it worse.

But a lot of the final screwing with it was done with the Wind Deflector off and the Roof installed.

So there was quite a bit of scrunching around in the car

I think that Targa may actually be German for Yoga

RFMASSA

That's funny.
I don't know how you looked at all those mechanisms and decided to take it all apart.

-Ray

C4 NLW

Ray - No the work was done in Hong Kong. Probably more 993's per square mile here than anywhere else in the world. I guess Jebson (local main dealer) still gets plenty of practice on the older models.

Tim, near Boston

Ray,

My car exhibits the same behavior. What did you replace and did it help?

Thanks
Tim

RFMASSA

The only thing I ultimately did was to removed the passenger side 'pin' that fits into the shade and inserted a piece of filler plastic so that the pin would not be able to retract inwards in the car. In other words, it just keeps more outward presure into the shade. That seemed to work fairly well, as long as you don't tug on the shade laterally, as it can still seem to slip off. I think replacing some of the track and arm mechanisns would be the real fix. I have no deisre to get into it that deep.

I did the passenger side because that was the side where the pin was always almost out of the shade.

Tim, near Boston

Thanks for your reply. Re-reading your OP, I think I misunderstood the problem you described. My car behaves differently.

In my car the sun blind pull bows detach from the sun blind track (see the colored photo by Amfab for reference). This causes the blind to snap downwards, but it does not retract into the windshield frame like a window shade would were you to let it go. The extend / retract works fine, just not quite the way Porsche / Webasto intended.

There are outboard-facing pins in the pull bows which ride in the sun blind track. Or not, in my case, although they re-engage as the shade is retracted into the windshield header.

Making this even more confusing is that the parts catalog, the 993 targa tech intro, and the TSBs refer to these parts by different names... Amfab's false-color picture is a good reference here.

I don't have a solution yet. The pull bows are about $20 each from Sonnen, whereas the tracks are over $100 each. I would like to remove a pull bow to see if I can determine root cause. Shouldn't be too hard as I have the trims out and plan to remove the wind deflector again this weekend.

Thanks again
Tim

mgianzero

Tim,

Can you attach a video of the tracking of your shade, particularly when the sun blind snaps so we could review it. Sometimes the tracks get worn, clips break, or metal parts bend (such as pull bow) which causes erratic movement of the shade mechanism. Left unchecked, it could lead to more damaging sequelae

Tim, near Boston

Hey Marc,

Thanks for the reply. Yes I can try to do that. I don't think it is serious as-is but the noise is annoying and, as you say, could lead to further problems.

As far as I can recall it has always done this, since I bought the car with 12K miles in 1999. I use the roof pretty much every time I drive the car and so far it has been great.

MARTIN SHAMPAINE

I have a different take on this problem. I have owned my 1997 Targa since it was new. With increasing frequency, over the years, I experienced the problem described. Then, last summer, with 48m miles on the clock I replaced the original shocks (w/Koni FSD's). The sunshade problem has not recurred.

My theory is that as my 993's shocks aged the frame was subject to increased twisting on various road surfaces which would pull the sunshades' pin out of the arm which retracts it.

With the new shocks in place the car feels much more stable and, as I have experienced, the sunshade has worked perfectly.

I hope that the problem does not recur but so far, so good.

mgianzero

There is a bit of twist (or torque) that a targa top must undergo while driving the car. Remember, the targa is really just a cabriolet with a hard top that is glued and bolted in very tightly. So I image that stiffer shocks, and perhaps a shock tower brace would limit this movement a bit.

Over time, I have had to readjust and retighten many bolts which support the glass top, wind deflector and it's driving mechanism. Since the shade track mechanism sits directly onto the glass module, it could certainly be affected by misalignment and also loosening parts. Also, notice how many of the bolts that secure the targa top are held in place by Loctite.

I've owned two 993 targas and the first one seem to work flawlessly. However, the second one began to make noises after about 6 months (I am someone who regularly opens and closes the top while driving.) I first ignored it as I didn't think it was a problem. This noise got progressively worse (first with shade, then with glass) until the shade started to catch and the glass top began to stick and not open and close fully. Eventually, the cables ended up stretching and kinking, which caused me to completely replace the driving cables to the glass. Perhaps the glass top was getting out of alignment slowly which lead to the eventual noise and malfunction of the shade mechanism.

I still think it may help if you were to video the movement of your shade so that we may see and/or hear it's movement. This may tell us something about what's normal and what's a potential problem in the future.

Tim, near Boston

Thanks for the replies folks.

I was unable to produce a video, but did make progress on the roof.

First I went back and addressed a new noise:

Previously I had performed repairs 3.1 and 3.2 in TSB 9606 . This eliminated all the creaking from the top of the windshield / crossbow area. I was really psyched, as this was the first time the roof had been truly quiet in 12 years. I had the roof & shade back together and was ready to reinstall the trims.

Unfortunately on the 2nd and 3rd drives a new, ridiculously loud creak appeared. By removing parts one at a time (wind deflector, shade metal trim which is not shown in the parts catalog, and the rolled-up shade itself) and driving the car I isolated the noise.

The noise was caused by interference between the newly-trimmed edge of the corner bracket and the mounting screw (993 562 577 01, originally) of the forward wind deflector bearing bracket (993 562 536 00). The bracket was left about 1mm too long, and the edge rubbing against the screw head caused an absurdly loud creaking from the crossbow. After another brief application of the Dremel cutoff wheel clearance was increased and after reassembly the roof was quiet again.

Back to the sun blind -

I found that the knock-out levers (993 562 551/552 00) were bent in two ways, as Mike suggested. Fortunately these are relatively cheap ($20) from Sonnen so I'm replacing them both. I've also decided to replace the gate guides (993 562 559/560 00) on both sides. These are also inexpensive ($24 from Sonnen). How they became bent I have no idea as I would not consider them flimsy...

After that I think I'll be done!

RFMASSA

Sorry for posting to an old thread but hoping some experts can tell me if replacing the sunblind gate guide track (993 562 560 00), is a fairly easy task, or does it require a lot of wind deflector dis-assembly? It sits underneath the glass roof at the back of it, even when the roof is open and I don't know if it is easy to get out with the roof in place. It looks like it snaps onto another rail and maybe that is all that is holding it in place.

The track I am talking about is the one where the long spring metal connects at the back f the car, usually with a tie-wrap at the very end.
It is pictured in message #21, picture #3 in this thread.

Is there any way to keep the glass roof open while working on the sunshade? While testing etc. as it is very tight with the roof closed, as you all know.

Thank you.


-Ray

Tim, near Boston

Hi Ray

Just looked at my car, at the service manuals (Vol 5 Body, 993 targa, section 60-40), and at the parts catalog (Jan 2010).

I believe the sunblind "gate guide" (item 16 in illustration 811-02 in the Jan 2010 parts catalog) clips in at the front and rear. Not hard to get out and cheap to replace.

I don't know if it is possible to unclip the gate guide from the front with the wind deflector and sun blind in place.

The good news is that it is pretty easy to remove the wind deflector. While in there you can replace the mounting screws and the sliding shoes per TSB 9703 "Noises from the Targa Roof Area", as well as the slides / "plain bearings" on the edge of the sun blind and on the edge of the knock-out levers (the KO levers are 993 562 551 / 552 00).

For the wind deflector:

Torx screws: 993 562 577 01 - Do not over-torque or you will strip the mount bonded to the wind deflector!!! Qty 4
Sliding shoes: 993 562 563 00 - Qty 4

For the sun blind and the knock-out levers:

Plain bearing: 993 562 587 00 (on edge of sun blind, qty 4, and on the edge of the knock-out lever, qty 2)

I don't think the controller will allow the shade closed with the roof open.


Also check on the condition of the knock-out levers. They should not be bent. Also check the condition of the small slides on top of the knock-out levers (part 993 562 555 00). The slides are wear items.

The tie wrap is useful but I'm pretty sure it is not part of the design

I'm happy to report my roof works perfectly, does not leak, and no longer creaks. Thanks to the helpful posts on this thread and others.

Hope that helps
Tim