Wong Chip anyone?
08-07-2009, 09:14 PM
#16
Burning Brakes
I made/make no criticism of Steve Wong's chips and have no personal experience with them. I fully apologize if it came out that way. I was making a general statement that's been my experience with anything.
08-07-2009, 11:21 PM
#19
08-08-2009, 04:45 AM
#20
Drifting
Thread Starter
08-08-2009, 02:21 PM
#21
All "performance" chips are basically the same with some copies of others' which just
"push" the timing and require higher octane levels (which in most cases isn't available).
Most are unaware of the problematic issue with using a "performance" chip in an air cooled engine,
i.e. the total engine temperature is always ambient plus the additional temperature rise caused
by the "pushed" timing and is basically uncontrolled. That's not the case for a water cooled
engine, e.g. the 996. With water cooled cylinder heads, the temperature is held constant
over a wide range of ambient temperature and engine conditions. This is not the case for
the air cooled 964/993 and as such is more prone to detonation during hot days or during
heavy engine loads, e.g. uphill grade. Additionally, the 964/993 head design has the
inherent detonation problem which was reduced by the additional spark plug. If one of the
two fails or is weak in its effectiveness in igniting the charge, detonation will occur because
the normal timing is already "at the edge" initially without a "performance" chip timing change.
The result of the additional engine temperature rise results in potentially sooner detonation and the
knock sensors retarding the "pushed" timing for a net loss in torque. Some "tuners" use hyperbole
such as "the chip AFRs are tweaked to reduce head temperatures" which has essentially little to no
effect in reducing the increased combustion temperatures to avoid the new detonation point,
i.e. it can't really compensate for the basically uncontrolled ambient temperature effect
and varying engine temperature conditions. That's the reason Porsche went to a redesigned
combustion chamber & water cooled heads, e.g. 962/959 to allow greater compression ratios
and timing advances in the '80s for race engines. That's also why all subsequent, to the 993,
Porsche engines were redesigned and use water cooling which additionally facilitates emission control.
"push" the timing and require higher octane levels (which in most cases isn't available).
Most are unaware of the problematic issue with using a "performance" chip in an air cooled engine,
i.e. the total engine temperature is always ambient plus the additional temperature rise caused
by the "pushed" timing and is basically uncontrolled. That's not the case for a water cooled
engine, e.g. the 996. With water cooled cylinder heads, the temperature is held constant
over a wide range of ambient temperature and engine conditions. This is not the case for
the air cooled 964/993 and as such is more prone to detonation during hot days or during
heavy engine loads, e.g. uphill grade. Additionally, the 964/993 head design has the
inherent detonation problem which was reduced by the additional spark plug. If one of the
two fails or is weak in its effectiveness in igniting the charge, detonation will occur because
the normal timing is already "at the edge" initially without a "performance" chip timing change.
The result of the additional engine temperature rise results in potentially sooner detonation and the
knock sensors retarding the "pushed" timing for a net loss in torque. Some "tuners" use hyperbole
such as "the chip AFRs are tweaked to reduce head temperatures" which has essentially little to no
effect in reducing the increased combustion temperatures to avoid the new detonation point,
i.e. it can't really compensate for the basically uncontrolled ambient temperature effect
and varying engine temperature conditions. That's the reason Porsche went to a redesigned
combustion chamber & water cooled heads, e.g. 962/959 to allow greater compression ratios
and timing advances in the '80s for race engines. That's also why all subsequent, to the 993,
Porsche engines were redesigned and use water cooling which additionally facilitates emission control.
Last edited by Lorenfb; 08-08-2009 at 07:12 PM.
08-27-2009, 10:15 PM
#23
Drifting
Thread Starter
The G/B is now closed, if you contacted me about it but I have not returned the msg please contact me asap. (I tried to keep the record straight by using a spreadsheet but doing the msg'ing via PM's is kludgy...) Thanks.
08-27-2009, 11:52 PM
#24
Instructor
I've been running the Steve Wong Chip for a couple of years or so. It's excellent. No issues at all. I would recommend Steve Wong's Chip and back up service to anyone. He was very helpful.
08-28-2009, 12:18 AM
#25
Race Car
Laurenfb,
I think your overall statement is a little on the general side. I am assuming that you have viewed the Ignition and fuel maps of all the "performance Chips" to come to this conclusion. If not, then what is your basis for making such statements.
Additionally you talk about: "With water cooled cylinder heads, the temperature is held constant over a wide range of ambient temperature and engine conditions" Now again I am sure you have seen a temperature guage in a water cooled car move, I know I have, and in the large number of 996, 997,986 and 987 cars I have driven at the track (I am a DE insructor and have driven many, many cars on the track) I have seen the temperature guage move and sometimes quite considerably. If the guage is moving then the water temperature is rising. Now from my very basic knowledge of the internal combustion engine the water that flows through the heads is what the temperature guage measures.
This forum is full of very valuable information given by many experts, and in the area of performance chips and DME tuning there are a larger number of experts. Generalizations really don't help anyone. I would like to see or hear Steve W's resonse to your comments or Geoffrey as these guys live and breath performance and DME tuning.
I think your overall statement is a little on the general side. I am assuming that you have viewed the Ignition and fuel maps of all the "performance Chips" to come to this conclusion. If not, then what is your basis for making such statements.
Additionally you talk about: "With water cooled cylinder heads, the temperature is held constant over a wide range of ambient temperature and engine conditions" Now again I am sure you have seen a temperature guage in a water cooled car move, I know I have, and in the large number of 996, 997,986 and 987 cars I have driven at the track (I am a DE insructor and have driven many, many cars on the track) I have seen the temperature guage move and sometimes quite considerably. If the guage is moving then the water temperature is rising. Now from my very basic knowledge of the internal combustion engine the water that flows through the heads is what the temperature guage measures.
This forum is full of very valuable information given by many experts, and in the area of performance chips and DME tuning there are a larger number of experts. Generalizations really don't help anyone. I would like to see or hear Steve W's resonse to your comments or Geoffrey as these guys live and breath performance and DME tuning.
08-28-2009, 11:56 AM
#26
Race Director
Laurenfb,
I think your overall statement is a little on the general side. I am assuming that you have viewed the Ignition and fuel maps of all the "performance Chips" to come to this conclusion. If not, then what is your basis for making such statements.
Additionally you talk about: "With water cooled cylinder heads, the temperature is held constant over a wide range of ambient temperature and engine conditions" Now again I am sure you have seen a temperature guage in a water cooled car move, I know I have, and in the large number of 996, 997,986 and 987 cars I have driven at the track (I am a DE insructor and have driven many, many cars on the track) I have seen the temperature guage move and sometimes quite considerably. If the guage is moving then the water temperature is rising. Now from my very basic knowledge of the internal combustion engine the water that flows through the heads is what the temperature guage measures.
This forum is full of very valuable information given by many experts, and in the area of performance chips and DME tuning there are a larger number of experts. Generalizations really don't help anyone. I would like to see or hear Steve W's resonse to your comments or Geoffrey as these guys live and breath performance and DME tuning.
I think your overall statement is a little on the general side. I am assuming that you have viewed the Ignition and fuel maps of all the "performance Chips" to come to this conclusion. If not, then what is your basis for making such statements.
Additionally you talk about: "With water cooled cylinder heads, the temperature is held constant over a wide range of ambient temperature and engine conditions" Now again I am sure you have seen a temperature guage in a water cooled car move, I know I have, and in the large number of 996, 997,986 and 987 cars I have driven at the track (I am a DE insructor and have driven many, many cars on the track) I have seen the temperature guage move and sometimes quite considerably. If the guage is moving then the water temperature is rising. Now from my very basic knowledge of the internal combustion engine the water that flows through the heads is what the temperature guage measures.
This forum is full of very valuable information given by many experts, and in the area of performance chips and DME tuning there are a larger number of experts. Generalizations really don't help anyone. I would like to see or hear Steve W's resonse to your comments or Geoffrey as these guys live and breath performance and DME tuning.
I had a Steve Wong chip on my '88 and loved it, very noticeable improvement to me.
