NineMeister

The 9m Motec conversion for the 964 or 993 (OBD 1 only!!) costs £3500 fitted & mapped, this equates to approximately £2750 in parts & the rest in installation, dyno & road mapping time. On more then one occasion I have sold the Motec package as a kit of parts for customers who cannot get the parts locally, in all circumstances I will send a start map pre-programmed into the ecu to get you running, but you will have to get the engine fine tuned to suit local fuel and conditions (or pay me to fly over and map it for you!). Just understand first that whilst there are a lot of so-called Motec tuners out there, only a few of them can get the best from the system.

Yes Joe, the little dip is the crossover point of the resonance flap closed torque curve (low rpm) & flap open curve (high rpm). There's a recent thread on the 964 forum where a chap had the resonance flap removed from his manifold & I have posted a sample dyno curve showing the effect of the flap in both open & closed states if you're interested.

In the case of the results for this engine, I expected it to make 280-290hp on our dyno before the conversion and found that it had a failed coil which would have pulled the power down somewhat, so the actual gain is more likely to be around 30hp as mentioned in the opening post.

kb

Colin -
how does this motec tuning compare to your 9m 993 NVR+2 Conversion ? Ease of set up? Client preference when looking for more reliable HP & TQ? Thanks. One of these days .........

Vartan76

I have a 993 varioram (US Spec). I had (now crashed) a track prepared 993 with Non VR engine (Euro spec, large throttle body, polished intake , Rs cams, higher compression , LWF, retuned and with short gearing etc)

I am seriously considering transplanting the engine and gearbox into my 993 cabrio, but have heard horror tales about wiring loom compatibility between VR and NonVR. Searching this tread, I see Ninemaster has done the work before.

Can you confirm that? if so, would be very interested in any help / solutions you could provide.

many thanks

Bill Verburg

The change from non v-ram to v-ram or back is easy as long as you have a 55pin OBD1 DME

the 55pin DME's were used on all RoW 993 n/a cars and on US '95 993

to install V-rm on a non vram car
pin#32, yellow/white has to connect to the resonator(which used to be DME pin#1)

DME pin #1(which used to be the resonance flap) grey/white connects to the vram actuators.

all the actuators need the 12v red/white to work

and of course a chip for a RoW vram

NineMeister

Bill, for Vartan I think the conversion will be just a matter of fitting the complete engine harness and ecu with the engine which will all be available from the crashed trackday car.

NineMeister

The clear benefit of utilising the Motec system is the ability to tune everything on the engine. There is more to mapping than the fuel and ignition curve at full throttle, so having the ability to understand and manipulate features like the idle control parameters and fuel trimming from manifold pressure will give a good tuner the clear advantage over Motronic.

The sad truth though is that all these features are built into the Motronic system, but such is the relative complexity/lack of knowledge about the tuning of the software I doubt that you will find anyone willing to invest the time in to getting it right. Isn't it a shame that nobody has written an emulator program for the Motronic which has the look and feel of the Motec software?

So the real answer to your question is that I could not recommend a Motec upgrade on the 993 purely on the basis of performance as the stock system (in theory) will do the same job. Add mechanical upgrades into the pot like the +2 package and the answer is the same. However, when the Motronic requires further tuning beyond the ability of the tuner, a Motec upgrade will have a clear advantage in yielding the potential from the engine.

Bill Verburg

The fact that even Porsche gave up on Motronic for their race cars circa 1997 is telling.

Falcondrivr

But Colin, at the top of the page you estimate ~+30 HP for ~ $5000USD...that's the cheapest horsepower I've heard of for these cars. What am I missing?

NineMeister

You're not missing anything. The 9m Motec package has allowed us to fully optimise the fuel and ignition maps of the engine live on the dyno, the results being those shown of a non-Varioram equipped engine without cats. No snakeoil, what you see is what we got. I suppose what I am saying is that similar results may be possible with Motronic or other systems, but that is for someone else to prove.

Since the original thread was posted Motec have discontinued the M48 and replaced it with the new M84 ecu, essentially a software limited M600. The price of the conversion has thus increased, but the good news is that the M84 comes with datalogging and lambda as standard so we now supply a wide band lambda sensor to make the most of the additional features which were not included in the M48 kit.

chsu74

How much power loss would result from an installed 200 cell cat in order to pass emissions?

Falcondrivr

Ok...So for my obd1 95, it's more HP than a 3.8 kit, for half the price. I think I NEED this.

joe original@flash.net

Collin will this setup work on cars with obII -96years with cats?

power_up

Did Motec can be fitted in Tiptronic cars?

Bill Verburg

If 9M does it the way Geoffrey does it(I believe that they do) the MAF is also removed, like on a Cup car, this has to help intake flow some

Juha G

From my own experience the biggest difference in hp was made by advancing the ignition over what the stock mapping allows for...
All else is just fine tuning and while equally important, it does not add to hp count much.

Also, one should not only look at the top figures (hp/torque) but the shape and size of the torque curve. It tells you so much more about the engine.
I got +50Nm troughout the entire powerband with Motec, that is way different from getting for example +80Nm in a very narrow area...