Failed CA Smog & More....
06-05-2009, 07:51 PM
#46
Race Car
So no need to come on and insult me and call me names. Totally uncalled for. Just trying to help bud.
I was just stating facts so people don't freak out if this ever happens to them and think that they have to go to the dealer and get ripped off to get it fixed.
Again, sorry that you misuderstood my intentions. I'm glad that you got it fixed one way or another.
Relax, have a beer... or two, Life is good.
06-05-2009, 10:45 PM
#48
"However, you can do the same with any Actron ODBII reader that can monitor the cycle flags as stated at the beginning of this thread."
Unless I missed some info on the datasheet for the above scanner,
it doesn't read the cycle flags. The cycle flags are not the readiness
codes which the emission station reads. Most all the basic scanners
will read the readiness codes.
The cycles flags are states within the DME that Bosch/Porsche provided
(proprietary data) which can only be read by the PST2 & the PIWIS.
Even the aftermarket scanners (Durametric/Autoenginuity) can't obtain
the cycle flag data as of my last review of those devices.
The cycle flag data are basically a subgroup of the readiness codes
which provide the completion status during each trip of the tests
being performed, e.g. Tank Venting or Secondary Air Injection.
The following is the 993 readiness code process:
1. Trip 1 begins - during driving all the cycle flags are tested and if ALL
complete, Trip 1 has been completed. No readiness codes will be indicated.
If all the cycle flags fail to occur prior to "key off", Trip 1 MUST be repeated.
2. Trip 2 begins - an engine restart & driving initiates Trip 2 and again
all the cycle flags are tested and if ALL complete, Trip 2 has been completed.
At this time & only at this time, the readiness codes will be indicated.
On some vehicles, another trip may be necessary before the readiness
codes will be indicated. Note: The engine MUST be cold to start Trip 2
(Secondary Air) or "forced" via the Porsche testers.
The cycle flags via the Porsche testers facilitate the readiness code process.
With cycle flags monitoring, two trips can be completed in about 45 minutes
on some 993s. Without these testers, one may not know when to begin
Trip 2 and even whether Trip 1 completed.
Bottom line: The 993 readiness code process is more complex than many
realize. The above should help explain why many shops and dealers charge
as they do as the process can be very time consuming.
Unless I missed some info on the datasheet for the above scanner,
it doesn't read the cycle flags. The cycle flags are not the readiness
codes which the emission station reads. Most all the basic scanners
will read the readiness codes.
The cycles flags are states within the DME that Bosch/Porsche provided
(proprietary data) which can only be read by the PST2 & the PIWIS.
Even the aftermarket scanners (Durametric/Autoenginuity) can't obtain
the cycle flag data as of my last review of those devices.
The cycle flag data are basically a subgroup of the readiness codes
which provide the completion status during each trip of the tests
being performed, e.g. Tank Venting or Secondary Air Injection.
The following is the 993 readiness code process:
1. Trip 1 begins - during driving all the cycle flags are tested and if ALL
complete, Trip 1 has been completed. No readiness codes will be indicated.
If all the cycle flags fail to occur prior to "key off", Trip 1 MUST be repeated.
2. Trip 2 begins - an engine restart & driving initiates Trip 2 and again
all the cycle flags are tested and if ALL complete, Trip 2 has been completed.
At this time & only at this time, the readiness codes will be indicated.
On some vehicles, another trip may be necessary before the readiness
codes will be indicated. Note: The engine MUST be cold to start Trip 2
(Secondary Air) or "forced" via the Porsche testers.
The cycle flags via the Porsche testers facilitate the readiness code process.
With cycle flags monitoring, two trips can be completed in about 45 minutes
on some 993s. Without these testers, one may not know when to begin
Trip 2 and even whether Trip 1 completed.
Bottom line: The 993 readiness code process is more complex than many
realize. The above should help explain why many shops and dealers charge
as they do as the process can be very time consuming.
06-05-2009, 11:03 PM
#49
Nordschleife Master
Loren, what scan tool do you recommend for a 1995 993 with the OBD II port and the OBD I diagnostic system? (I have a late 1995 build with this interesting paradox)
06-05-2009, 11:14 PM
#50
"what scan tool do you recommend for a 1995 993 with the OBD II port and the OBD I diagnostic system?"
There are no generic universal ODBI scanners are there are for OBDII,
as ODBI did not have a single universal specification as does OBDII.
Each OEM had basically its own OBDI specification. Therefore, the only
reasonable less costly Porsche scanner is either the Durametric or the
Autoenginuity which both run on PCs. Some stand-alone scanners,
e.g. Baum Tools, can provide basic functions as the two PC based
devices but are about 10X more costly.
There are no generic universal ODBI scanners are there are for OBDII,
as ODBI did not have a single universal specification as does OBDII.
Each OEM had basically its own OBDI specification. Therefore, the only
reasonable less costly Porsche scanner is either the Durametric or the
Autoenginuity which both run on PCs. Some stand-alone scanners,
e.g. Baum Tools, can provide basic functions as the two PC based
devices but are about 10X more costly.
06-06-2009, 01:36 AM
#52
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06-06-2009, 01:55 AM
#53
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07-14-2009, 08:35 PM
#54
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Oops - I actually meant to post this reply here, but picked the wrong 'readiness codes' thread.
The short version is, in CA, the BAR referee can pass your car for smog if the only problem is the readiness codes. Don't worry about the drive cycle stuff... Details here.
The short version is, in CA, the BAR referee can pass your car for smog if the only problem is the readiness codes. Don't worry about the drive cycle stuff... Details here.
07-14-2009, 08:38 PM
#55
Rennlist Member
I'll paste it here for the lazy clickers. Good info Pat, thanks!!!
Apologies for resurrecting this thread, but in a good cause :-)
My '96 Carrera 4 Cab failed smog, on readiness codes ('failed functional check'), the other day. I had to jump start it after the battery went flat when it was left for a few weeks over Christmas, and 7 months of regular driving had only set the 'M', 'F' and 'CC' codes, leaving 'C', 'EV', '2A', 'O' and 'OH' unset (according to my Equus Innova 3100 OBD2 tool).
I called my 'Porsche guy', Don Wise at Don's Autowerks in Campbell, CA, and he recommended Accurate Smog Check on Curtner in San Jose. I called them and they said to take it to the BAR referee at Evergreen Valley College in San Jose, so I called (1 800 622 7733), made an appointment, and showed up there today with my registration, failed smog receipt and $8.25 in cash.
The tech there (Terrence, iirc) was efficient and knowledgeable. He knew all about the 993 and said that, if all else checked out, readiness codes would not be an issue. I showed him my printout of the BMW driving cycle and his response was 'good luck with that'
About 20 minutes later I was the proud possessor of a referee override certificate.
Bottom line - at least in CA - if your car fails smog on the functional check due to unset readiness codes, don't panic, just call BAR at 1 800 622 7733, make an appointment and you'll be fine. The net cost is zero, since they just charge you the $8.25 certificate fee that you didn't pay to the smog test center, and it's quicker and easier than trying to do the drive cycle :-)
My '96 Carrera 4 Cab failed smog, on readiness codes ('failed functional check'), the other day. I had to jump start it after the battery went flat when it was left for a few weeks over Christmas, and 7 months of regular driving had only set the 'M', 'F' and 'CC' codes, leaving 'C', 'EV', '2A', 'O' and 'OH' unset (according to my Equus Innova 3100 OBD2 tool).
I called my 'Porsche guy', Don Wise at Don's Autowerks in Campbell, CA, and he recommended Accurate Smog Check on Curtner in San Jose. I called them and they said to take it to the BAR referee at Evergreen Valley College in San Jose, so I called (1 800 622 7733), made an appointment, and showed up there today with my registration, failed smog receipt and $8.25 in cash.
The tech there (Terrence, iirc) was efficient and knowledgeable. He knew all about the 993 and said that, if all else checked out, readiness codes would not be an issue. I showed him my printout of the BMW driving cycle and his response was 'good luck with that'
About 20 minutes later I was the proud possessor of a referee override certificate.
Bottom line - at least in CA - if your car fails smog on the functional check due to unset readiness codes, don't panic, just call BAR at 1 800 622 7733, make an appointment and you'll be fine. The net cost is zero, since they just charge you the $8.25 certificate fee that you didn't pay to the smog test center, and it's quicker and easier than trying to do the drive cycle :-)
07-14-2009, 09:15 PM
#56
Three Wheelin'
I've never heard of anyone ever getting arrested for expired tags before.
07-14-2009, 10:08 PM
#57
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Interesting. The smog referee station I went to at Pierce Jr. College would not pass it unless 5 of the 8 readiness codes were set. Two years ago my experience was the same as yours. Next time I’ll try a different referee station.
07-15-2009, 02:01 PM
#58
"would not pass it unless 5 of the 8 readiness codes were set"
With the 993, it's all or none, i.e. the 993 MUST complete ALL or none will be indicated!
That's the key OBDII problem with the 993 readiness codes versus other OBDII vehicles of
that vintage.
With the 993, it's all or none, i.e. the 993 MUST complete ALL or none will be indicated!
That's the key OBDII problem with the 993 readiness codes versus other OBDII vehicles of
that vintage.
11-19-2011, 08:20 PM
#60
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Great post. Hoping you can answer a couple of basic questions. are the times listed minimum times? For instance, if I idle for 4 minutes then follow all other steps exactly, should it work? I've seen that this sequence has to be done twice. If so I assume that since step 1 is "start cold" the car has to sit for a while before step 2?