Failed CA Smog & More....
06-04-2009, 02:11 PM
#31
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"You may have to do the drive cycle twice.
I've found that sometimes it takes one cycle to reset all of the,."
Actually, you always need two drive cycles, and in some cases three
may be necessary. The key point to always remember is that "just
driving X miles" under specified conditions will always SET the readiness
codes is incorrect. Certain key cycle flags MUST be set prior to ANY
driving, i.e. Tanking Venting & Secondary Air. If either of these fail
to set, driving is a waste of time.
Read more 993 info here: www.systemsc.com/codes.htm
I've found that sometimes it takes one cycle to reset all of the,."
Actually, you always need two drive cycles, and in some cases three
may be necessary. The key point to always remember is that "just
driving X miles" under specified conditions will always SET the readiness
codes is incorrect. Certain key cycle flags MUST be set prior to ANY
driving, i.e. Tanking Venting & Secondary Air. If either of these fail
to set, driving is a waste of time.
Read more 993 info here: www.systemsc.com/codes.htm
Anyhow, good info. Thanks.
06-04-2009, 03:03 PM
#32
Anjin San
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Well, I think I get it now. But I still don't understand why you couldn't clear the codes without going to the dealer.
Pg. 27 or so of the manual for the scan tool mentioned above shows the procedure Erase Codes function for deleting Diagnostic Trouble Codes.
http://www.actron.com/publish/2008/0...lish_16309.pdf
This webpage is helpful:
http://www.aa1car.com/library/ic10224.htm
It states "some scan tools do not have all the OEM codes for all makes, particularly many European applications. Accessing the OEM-specific enhanced codes may require using a dealer scan tool, which can be very expensive." So maybe some tools don't have access to all of the Porsche-specific codes? The Actron site does mention Use on all 1996 and newer OBD II compliant vehicles and that it's Internet Updateable.
However, I would think a misfire code would be as generic as they come.
As a certifiable geek I love that there's an open source linux command-line version of ODBII ScanTool.
http://freediag.sourceforge.net/
Almost enough to wish my C2 (it's a '95,) was OBDII, not quite, but almost.
Until very recently I lived in SoCal, Pasadena to be exact. There are many things I miss, having moved to WA, and one thing I surely don't miss is the CA DMV.
Pg. 27 or so of the manual for the scan tool mentioned above shows the procedure Erase Codes function for deleting Diagnostic Trouble Codes.
http://www.actron.com/publish/2008/0...lish_16309.pdf
This webpage is helpful:
http://www.aa1car.com/library/ic10224.htm
It states "some scan tools do not have all the OEM codes for all makes, particularly many European applications. Accessing the OEM-specific enhanced codes may require using a dealer scan tool, which can be very expensive." So maybe some tools don't have access to all of the Porsche-specific codes? The Actron site does mention Use on all 1996 and newer OBD II compliant vehicles and that it's Internet Updateable.
However, I would think a misfire code would be as generic as they come.
As a certifiable geek I love that there's an open source linux command-line version of ODBII ScanTool.
http://freediag.sourceforge.net/
Almost enough to wish my C2 (it's a '95,) was OBDII, not quite, but almost.
Until very recently I lived in SoCal, Pasadena to be exact. There are many things I miss, having moved to WA, and one thing I surely don't miss is the CA DMV.
Unfortunately the code memory isn't erased when you reset the codes on the reader my guy uses. My guy used a Porsche NA brand code reader in a cool metal suitcase. He would rather I spend the money with him rather than the stealer. One of the phantom codes was O2 Sensor missing broken. They were replaced less than 2 years ago.
I just did not have time and or patience to do the Voodoo - Black Magic fix. This fix took less than half a day including retest and Autoclub. Pasadena to Seattle? So what do you miss about Pasadena?
06-04-2009, 03:25 PM
#33
Rennlist Member
The term "hard reboot" is probably the best description of what I had done. Resetting the codes does not always get rid of the fault codes. A "Hard reboot" wipes the memory. It is similar to when your PC gets locked and you have to turn off the PC while frozen. It is a better description than reset the codes.
Have I explained it better?
Have I explained it better?
- The Erase Codes function deletes DTCs and I/M Readiness data from
vehicle’s control module(s). Perform this function with KOEO. Do not
start the engine.
✓The Erase Codes function may also erase View Freeze Data, O2
Monitor Test, and Diagnostic Monitor Test results depending on
vehicle.
✓The Erase Codes function sets monitors to inc.
✓Perform Erase Codes function only after systems have been
checked completely and DTCs have been written down.
✓After servicing the vehicle, erase stored DTCs and verify no codes
have been reset. If a DTC returns, problem has not been fixed or other
faults are present.
✓Depending on which monitor sets a code the vehicle may need to be
driven and the monitor run before concluding that the fault is repaired.
So, are you saying that even after you've cleared codes with an OBDII reader (like this one), there are still fault codes stored that can only be erased with something like a PST2 or Hammer??? Do you know what codes weren't erased?
edit:
Also, is this the unit that your wrench is using?
Last edited by gonzilla; 06-04-2009 at 04:41 PM.
06-04-2009, 04:01 PM
#34
Race Car
Any Code reader will erase all the codes stored in memory. There is not such thing as a "hard reboot" other than taking the battery off for a minute and then reconnecting the battery. This off course will reset the readiness codes as well.
06-04-2009, 09:23 PM
#35
Anjin San
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OK geniuses it is like this:
I had the car smog tested, it passed the emissions but failed the readiness codes ie misfire
I went to my mechanic to have the misfire fixed.
My mechanic has been working on Porsches /in ibusiness for over 20 years. I and my imediate family have been using the shop since 1969 first by the original owner and now by the current owner. As a mechanic, he worked on the family's 1973 911T, 1977 911S, 1980 911SC Weissach coupe, my 1st 993 which gave it's life to save my wife's live, my Dad's 996, and our current 993. To say that he has experience working on Porsches, and that I have a history with him is an understatement. And I trust him.
On Monday June 1 I took the car to my guy to check if the readiness codes were clear, he cleared the codes when he fixed the misfire 3 weeks ago ,with the machine pictured above but the history of the fault codes were still they were not. I drove the car a lot, including a drive / tour from Pasadena to Riverside. If I retested the car it would still fail with the readiness code part.
On Tuesday June 2 I went to DMV and was told that they would only issue a 1 day permit at a time. I knew that the Staler could totally clear the memory. If my guy could do it I would have spent money with him.
On Wednesday June 3 at 7:30 AM I dropped the car off at the Stealer. I paid $325 and picked up the car at 12:00, went to have the retest, had NO READINESS FAULT CODEs and passed the retest. I went to DMV and got my yellow 2010 tag. I am good to go. I am not a mechanic, I have never claimed to be one. What I can say is that the place I had the car tested deals with a lot of Porsches and according to the owner the Porsches that fail are mostly 993's with OBDII.
I fixed it one way that worked for me and my schedule.
If you want or need more info I would suggest Viper Bob.
To review:
Car failed smog test in readiness codes.
Had misfire repaired, but readiness codes remained in system even after 3 weeks.
Took car to Stealer had codes cleared in, for lack of a better term Hard Reboot for $325
Went from getting the car directly to Smog Station, passed retest.
Got my tags.
Does this answer your question?
I had the car smog tested, it passed the emissions but failed the readiness codes ie misfire
I went to my mechanic to have the misfire fixed.
My mechanic has been working on Porsches /in ibusiness for over 20 years. I and my imediate family have been using the shop since 1969 first by the original owner and now by the current owner. As a mechanic, he worked on the family's 1973 911T, 1977 911S, 1980 911SC Weissach coupe, my 1st 993 which gave it's life to save my wife's live, my Dad's 996, and our current 993. To say that he has experience working on Porsches, and that I have a history with him is an understatement. And I trust him.
On Monday June 1 I took the car to my guy to check if the readiness codes were clear, he cleared the codes when he fixed the misfire 3 weeks ago ,with the machine pictured above but the history of the fault codes were still they were not. I drove the car a lot, including a drive / tour from Pasadena to Riverside. If I retested the car it would still fail with the readiness code part.
On Tuesday June 2 I went to DMV and was told that they would only issue a 1 day permit at a time. I knew that the Staler could totally clear the memory. If my guy could do it I would have spent money with him.
On Wednesday June 3 at 7:30 AM I dropped the car off at the Stealer. I paid $325 and picked up the car at 12:00, went to have the retest, had NO READINESS FAULT CODEs and passed the retest. I went to DMV and got my yellow 2010 tag. I am good to go. I am not a mechanic, I have never claimed to be one. What I can say is that the place I had the car tested deals with a lot of Porsches and according to the owner the Porsches that fail are mostly 993's with OBDII.
I fixed it one way that worked for me and my schedule.
If you want or need more info I would suggest Viper Bob.
To review:
Car failed smog test in readiness codes.
Had misfire repaired, but readiness codes remained in system even after 3 weeks.
Took car to Stealer had codes cleared in, for lack of a better term Hard Reboot for $325
Went from getting the car directly to Smog Station, passed retest.
Got my tags.
Does this answer your question?
06-04-2009, 09:29 PM
#36
Race Car
Yes, it answers the question.
06-04-2009, 09:34 PM
#37
Sounds like the dealer charged you $325 to disconnect your battery and put your car through the drive cycle.
Genius.
06-04-2009, 09:35 PM
#38
Rennlist Member
Ummm... okay. I was just curious what the dealer was doing that your Indie wasn't. If he's got a PST2, he's using the same toolbox as the dealer would. In the end I think we're all just trying to learn more. Thanks for the write up. 
06-05-2009, 12:01 PM
#39
"Sounds like the dealer charged you $325 to disconnect your battery and put your car through the drive cycle."
Partially correct.
Most likely the dealer didn't disconnect the battery, but just connected the PST2
tester (as pictured on this thread) and monitored the cycle flags as two complete
drive cycles were performed. Without the use of that tester, just driving the vehicle
is usually a waste of time. Obviously the vehicle must be fault free before and
during the the drive cycles (subsequent to a battery disconnect or a DTC reset).
Partially correct.
Most likely the dealer didn't disconnect the battery, but just connected the PST2
tester (as pictured on this thread) and monitored the cycle flags as two complete
drive cycles were performed. Without the use of that tester, just driving the vehicle
is usually a waste of time. Obviously the vehicle must be fault free before and
during the the drive cycles (subsequent to a battery disconnect or a DTC reset).
06-05-2009, 12:12 PM
#40
Race Director
Here's the reset info. It works.
At the same time the OBDII cpu codes are reset, the "readiness codes" are also
reset. The readiness code indicates whether each of the 8 system sensors have
completed it's diagnostic check. So the inspection station doesn't see a trouble
code but also sees that the readiness code is off (actually it reads more than
"0").
Once the CE light is cleared the following readiness cycle can be followed to
reset the code or you could drive the car for a while in a variety of situations
that would allow each system to do it's thing:
Start engine, idle cold for approx. 2 min, 10 secs.
Accelerate to 20-30 MPH, Maintain steady speed for approx 3 min, 15 secs.
Accelerate to 40-60 MPH, Maintain steady speed for approx 15 mins.
Decelerate and come to a stop. Idle in gear for approx 5 mins.
Following the start engine phase the sequence of test conditions may
interchange.
The routine will be discontinued whenever:
Engine speed exceeds 3000 RPM
Large fluctuations in throttle angle
Road speed exceeds 60 MPH
At the same time the OBDII cpu codes are reset, the "readiness codes" are also
reset. The readiness code indicates whether each of the 8 system sensors have
completed it's diagnostic check. So the inspection station doesn't see a trouble
code but also sees that the readiness code is off (actually it reads more than
"0").
Once the CE light is cleared the following readiness cycle can be followed to
reset the code or you could drive the car for a while in a variety of situations
that would allow each system to do it's thing:
Start engine, idle cold for approx. 2 min, 10 secs.
Accelerate to 20-30 MPH, Maintain steady speed for approx 3 min, 15 secs.
Accelerate to 40-60 MPH, Maintain steady speed for approx 15 mins.
Decelerate and come to a stop. Idle in gear for approx 5 mins.
Following the start engine phase the sequence of test conditions may
interchange.
The routine will be discontinued whenever:
Engine speed exceeds 3000 RPM
Large fluctuations in throttle angle
Road speed exceeds 60 MPH
06-05-2009, 01:34 PM
#41
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Much thanks to jackb911 and others on the adivice. I hooked my scanner up yesterday to make sure it would be ready for inspection next month and I need to set the monitors. I thought I was good about charging the battery over the long winter...oops.
I was dreading going through this process. I'm confident I should be able to get this set thanks to your help.
I was dreading going through this process. I'm confident I should be able to get this set thanks to your help.
06-05-2009, 01:39 PM
#42
Race Car
Most likely the dealer didn't disconnect the battery, but just connected the PST2
tester (as pictured on this thread) and monitored the cycle flags as two complete
drive cycles were performed. Without the use of that tester, just driving the vehicle
is usually a waste of time. Obviously the vehicle must be fault free before and
during the the drive cycles (subsequent to a battery disconnect or a DTC reset).
tester (as pictured on this thread) and monitored the cycle flags as two complete
drive cycles were performed. Without the use of that tester, just driving the vehicle
is usually a waste of time. Obviously the vehicle must be fault free before and
during the the drive cycles (subsequent to a battery disconnect or a DTC reset).
However, you can do the same with any Actron ODBII reader that can monitor the cycle flags as stated at the beginning of this thread. No need to go to the dealer and hook up the PST scanner for that.
Also, there is no mysterious "hard reboot" that the PST can do that a battery disconnect can't do.
06-05-2009, 02:17 PM
#43
Rennlist Member
Last edited by jackb911; 06-05-2009 at 03:10 PM.
06-05-2009, 07:19 PM
#44
Anjin San
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Agreed, it is a waste of time to do the drive cycle blind, you need a reader hooked up to monitor.
However, you can do the same with any Actron ODBII reader that can monitor the cycle flags as stated at the beginning of this thread. No need to go to the dealer and hook up the PST scanner for that.
Also, there is no mysterious "hard reboot" that the PST can do that a battery disconnect can't do.
However, you can do the same with any Actron ODBII reader that can monitor the cycle flags as stated at the beginning of this thread. No need to go to the dealer and hook up the PST scanner for that.
Also, there is no mysterious "hard reboot" that the PST can do that a battery disconnect can't do.
I was just relaying my experience. the people that I have been doing business with gave me various options to pass smog. I passed smog. I can drive my car legally. So I give a rats *** about some self styled expert offering advice over the internet. I delt with people who want my business. $325 is more than I want to spend but if it fixed the problem.
If you want to say that I got ripped off, if that floats your boat, makes you feel like a big stud, fine do that.
We should probably agree to disagree on this one.
06-05-2009, 07:26 PM
#45
Anjin San
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