gr8330

After looking on the Tire Rack site it looks like the Dunlap Star Spec doesn't offer a rear tire in the size we need. I guess I'm back to the HTR Z III

nile13

Good tire, but more suitable to a sport sedan. New Kumho XS is a better tire and a better fit for a hard driven car

nile13

Those were probably 712s. Not a good tire by any stretch of imagination. No relation to the excellent MX or newer SPT and XS.

nile13

This is like saying "I've had Michelin (MVX-4) on my car, thus PS/2 must be crap as well".

Ecsta is not a tire model. Tell us what model you have.

nile13

I'm curious why people still read this drivel. LingLong "tire" in a comparison test? Brilliant!

RallyJon

Mike, I think your posts point out the problem with so many of the secondary brands. They change models and versions so often, it's impossible to build any kind of brand image. PS2s have been around for how long? Five, six years? That's like a dozen generations and different silly names of Kumhos or Sumitomos.

cabrio993

Agreed. However, Sumitomo is not a secondary brand, but rather the parent company of one that you may know better...."Dunlop"

Sumitomos are not new, they have been around for a century and they developed the first Japanese F1 tire along with other technical advances in the tire industry that may be used by...you guessed it...Michellin.

A brief history of Sumitomo Rubber:

1909 Dunlop U.K. established Japan's first modern rubber factory.
Began production of bicycle tires and tubes, and solid rickshaw tires
1911 Began production of rubber tubing, rubber gloves and water pillows
1913 Produced Japan's first automobile tires
1917 Incorporated as a Japanese company with ¥1.18million.capital
1930 Produced Japan's first golf and tennis *****
1935 Began production of motorcycle tires
1944 Izumiotsu Factory began operation
1951 Began production of rubber printer's blankets for offset printing
1953 Developed Japan's first tubeless tire
1960 Sumitomo Group companies became shareholders
1961 Nagoya Factory began operation.
Began production of Dunlop Fort tennis *****
1963 Sumitomo assumed management of company.
Changed name to Sumitomo Rubber Industries, Ltd.
1964 Began production of golf clubs
1966 Started mass-production of Japan's first radial tires, "SP3"
1967 Began production of marine fenders
1972 Kakogawa Factory began operation
1974 Shirakawa Factory began operation
1976 Miyazaki Factory began operation.
Developed Japan's first Formula-1 racing tires
1984 Acquired six tire plants in U.K., Germany and France as well as Dunlop Tyre Technical Devision in U.K.
1986 Acquired Dunlop Tire Corporation in U.S.A.
Constructed Okayama Tire Proving Ground
1994 Constructed new Head Office
1995 Closed Kobe Factory due to Great Hanshin Earthquake
1996 Ichijima Factory began operation
1997 Indonesia Factory began operation
1999 Formed alliance in tire business with The Goodyear Tire and Rubber Company in U.S.A.
2001 Zhongshan Factory began operation
2003 Integration with Ohtsu Tire and Rubber Company
Established SRI Sports Ltd. and SRI Hybrid Ltd.
2004 Changshu Factory began operation
2006 Launched 70% fossil resource-free tires, "ENASAVE ES801"
Thai Factory began operation
2007 SRI Hybrid's Vietnam Factory began operation
2008 Launched 97% fossil resource-free tires, "ENASAVE 97"

Some of their better known brands:

nile13

I would disagree here, Jon.

Let's take Falken Azenis, the tire I'm intimately familiar with. It initially came out as Azenis RT-215 about about 7 years ago. At the time it was probably the best street tire available and survived intact for approximately 5 years.It was was replaced by Azenis RT-615, which is their current excellent tire. I have RT-615s on both my cars currently.

Similarly, Kumho MX has been around even longer, about 6-7 years and just now has been replaced with XS and supplemented with less expensive SPT for pricing reasons, I believe.

Now let's take Michelin PS How many PSs has there been in the past 5-6 years? If I remember correctly there was original PS, PS Rib, PS/2, something else?

On the lower end the tires change constantly. Michelin makes tremendous number of really horrible tires - assorted Energies, Premacies, MXVs and others. The names pop up and disappear. Which is very similar to what Bridgestone or Dunlop, or Kumho and Falken do with their lower lines. Nobody seems to care about the actual function of the tire at that level. Buyers either care about price, or cool-looking thread (which was the case with Kumho SP712), or atrocious commercials with tires saving babies (witness Michelin, it makes my skin crawl when I understand which tires they are advertising and what will actually happen if one puts these bricks on the car with a baby in it and has an emergency situation on the road), etc. On the higher end the names and models appear to live longer. Which is surprising to me, actually, as the technology keeps progressing.

There are, of course, exceptions. The most egregious and scary one is Bridgestone Potenza RE92. Anyone who had those (and I assume that would include about half the new car buyers) should know what I'm speaking of. That tire actually does absolutely nothing well and manages to _melt_ at low speed autocross.

gr8330

For information, good or bad.

e9stibi

I have my second set of Falkens (rear axis) and are very happy. I was surprised that they did not to better on the track test because I love them. Might need to try the Dunlops next time which got that great feedback. However, tests are sometimes questionable because there is some big industry behind it ... Who can compare the Falken 615 and the Dunlops when used on a dry track based on experience on a 993?

RallyJon

Hmm, maybe it's that the big brands do a better job segmenting their market? I don't ever hear about anyone slamming PS2s because they had a bad experience with an MXV on a minivan. But the lesser brands will throw out an HTRZII (huh?) that's crap, yet the HTRZIII (let me get my reading glasses) is great. Come on...

And Ecsta? What does that mean? Sounds sporty, but mostly isn't. Why should I have to keep track?

Falken did a pretty good job with the Azenis, only diluting it with one add-on cheesy pretender. Must have had to lock the marketing team in a conference room for months.

But even Yoko, which had perhaps the purest performance tire brand in the last decade in Advan, couldn't resist putting it on the crap Advan Sport.

And Pirelli whoring out the PZero name...

OK, no one's innocent.

993-C4S

I wrote this up a long time ago when I was first researching new tires for my 993. It's a little over a year old, but I think it's still mostly accurate/relevant.

Understanding Porsche N spec Approval When Choosing Tires

nile13

I just think that information when presented the way they do, can range from useless to dangerous. But I have not read them in years.

nile13

Actually, majority of people I've ever talked to about tires are less than... ummm.. knowledgeable about them. They seem to fall into three categories:
1. I'll put whatever the OEM tire was on the car no matter what "because the car manufacturer knows best". That explains RE92 and MVX4 - two pretty expensive tires to replace, but sold on a lot of new cars due to being cheap for the car companies to procure - Bridgestone and Michelin are betting (correctly) on enough replacement sales to cover their costs. Both are atrocious tires, both have been around forever.

2. I had good experience with Bridgestone on one of my cars, thus Bridgestone makes good tires (alternately - Michelins' ads are very cool and tug at my strings, thus I'll buy them). No idea of any model or whatever, but they repeat the mantra and keep buying the same brand of tires.

3. Idiots like me who actually test different tires on different cars in different conditions at any given opportunity and actually able to remember the model numbers of assorted Azenis. That's just sad, I know, but we are a small bunch.

Ah, but... PS2's full name is Michelin Pilot Sport PS2 (not an airplane tire, strangely). Not to be confused with:

Michelin Pilot Sport Rib,
Michelin Pilot Sport PS,
Michelin Pilot Sport PS2 ZP,
Michelin Pilot Sport ZP,
Michelin Pilot Sport,
Michelin Pilot SX MMX3,
Michelin Pilot Sport A/S,
Michelin Pilot Sport A/S ZP,
Michelin Pilot Sport A/S Plus,
Michelin Pilot Sport A/S Plus ZP,
Michelin Pilot Exalto A/S,
Michelin Pilot HX MXM4,
Michelin Pilot HX MXM4 ZP,
Michelin Pilot ,
Michelin Pilot Sport Cup

(all current models, I cheated and look at TireRack's page). That doesn't include their older Pilot models or winter Pilot models.

So, why should we bother or begrudge Kumho the stupid made-up word Ecsta when there's Potenza, a Viagra-sounding name that is supposed to appeal to someone? Dunlop has Direzza (what?). Yoko has Advan. BFG has g-force. Etc, etc, etc. In this respect Kumho is pretty restrained and Falken is downright austere.

Which tire do you mean by pretender? St-115? I drove several Falken tires and they range from blah to almost decent, Azenis 215/615 were always far and above all their other stuff. But I hear you on marketing issue (as noted above). Confusing the public seems to be their modus operandi.

Bingo, that's exactly what I'm saying. And, as above, Michelin is leading the cavalcade on this. Little wonder, as they spend the most by far on advertising and marketing.

OK, no one's innocent. [/QUOTE]

nile13

I can compare them on an E36 M3 on a dry autocross course. Dunlop by a couple of wiskers. Partially because they take heat better.

I'd look at the pricing first in that comparison. And would consider Kumho XS as a real contender (minimal experience only in a Miata with these).