oh you guessed it LOL!

 

That is one gorgeous car. And the only one that had no waiting list....before the recent Troubles.

There is an identical thread going on in the 928 section.

 

Yes indeed. i started the 928 section comparison thread this time, but the subject has been visited before. I've mostly refreshed my 86.5 928 over the last several years. Much has been accomplished and and money expenditure has been predictable and under control.

I started getting 308GTB lust, but after some extensive searches in the Ferrari forums, came away sort of disgusted with the stupidly expensive cost of F parts. I am unable to undertake a project that would become a going financial concern. I'm also saddened by the prospect that so many aging 308s will be doomed to the parts pile because folks like us will not be able to justify the exorbitant parts cost to DIY sadder examples to health again.

In closing; the cost of F parts is just absurd. 928s and 308/328s tracked each other in price for their production history. They also tracked traded off with each other in performance, with 928s at a somewhat advantage. But 308 parts prices are based on their weight in gold. Further; an 80's Porsche can be a daily driver, even in the rain. When a 308 owner advertises that his car has no rust, he really means the rust underneath the eastern block/FIAT sheet metal hasn't quite worked its way to the outside. It really seems like too much for the average, competent DIYer to take on.

 

Well I too have been tempted, from time to time, and the 308 would be the one....

But our local ones might be in better shape, sheet metal wise, as they are stored winters.

 

I really like the 308/328 look, too, but in doing my "due diligence", I couldn't escape the conclusion that moving from a 993 would be a step backward. Even the best of that series would be less powerful, uncomfortable, prone to rust, and a nightmare from a maintenance expense standpoint and parts availability.

To get a later Ferrari at least comparable in performance to my 993, I would have to sell my 993, double my money, and then still be faced with extraordinary maintenance costs.

Don't get me wrong, I'd love to have a Ferrari, but for me, at this time, it doesn't make any sense at all. Maybe my research was all wrong, but I rather doubt it.

I've had my 993 three years now (my 12th Porsche or so, lost count). In that time I've done basic service, maybe spent a few hundred dollars at most. If I had bought a 308/328 three years ago, I'd already be planning for my second multi-thousand dollar service with timing belt change.

 

Id say that a 328 with some modern rubber would be on par with a 993 performance wise.

 

To be clear, I did my musings a few years ago, when the local prices of 308's dropped, and before I got my 993. I'm completely happy with the Porsche, and even if my net worth increased substantially for some reason, I would keep it.

It's just fun to think about it sometimes, an interesting left brain / right brain exercise.

 

With all due respect, this again sounds like input from someone who has never owned one of the cars. I probably should have been more thorough in my earlier post when comparing the 3x8 series Ferrari to a 993. There's a difference in the recommended frequency of timing belt change on the 3x8 cars vs. a 360/430. While Ferrari recommends a timing belt change on the 360/430 every 36,000 miles or every 3 years, whichever come first, most knowlegable owners feel that's just the manufacturer being overly cautious (probably to protect those owners who's tach never sees below 8000 rpm) Most owners I know change timing belts on 360's/430's every five years and then there are usually no signs of problems or wear. I had the timing belts done on my 360 in June of '05 and won't change them until next summer. The timing belt change on the 3x8 series is much less frequent and many owners go a long time on timing belts.

I actually found the maintenance costs on both my 308 and 328 to be only slightly higher than for my 993. And if one is mechanically inclined the 3x8 series Ferraris are actually fairly easy to work on. If you can tackle a mechanical job on a 993, you can tackle it on a 3x8.
The 360 is a very different story ......definitely more costly to maintain than a 993.

Cheers.
Dave

 

Dave,

That's right, I was the original poster and had pondered whether to jump from the 993 to a 308, so I have never owned one, just would like to own one if it makes sense.

It is good to know that you can go longer than 3 years on a timing belt change, but does Ferrari recommend 3 years, or 5 years, between timing belt changes on the 308/328?

If you can go longer than 36 months, that would be a big difference in my mind. These days 36 months seems to go by with blinding speed.

Thanks, Jeff

 

Hey Jeff. As you probably read in my earlier post comparing Ferrari and Porsche, I own both and love both marques. Like another person said, it's like you have two sons and you love them both equally even though they may be very different. that's kind of the way I look at the 993 vs. a 3x8. But to be honest, if my choice was between a 993 and a 308, I would go with the 993 hands down. I definitely would not sell a nice 993 for a nice 308. And if you decide to buy a 308, just like with a Porsche, documented service records and a PPI are a must.
If you get a chance to drive a nice 308 or 328 it might help you make a decision. But I bet you'll opt to stay with the trusty 993. (now if you're going to consider a 355 or a 360......that becomes a much tougher decision).

Cheers.
Dave

 

Dave,

Thanks for the clear, level-headed advice. You have convinced me that I should stay with what I've got (993). I'll keep looking at Ferraris, learning and getting advice, but I'd want to get something clearly as good as the 993. Fortunately for us on Rennlist that is a pretty high standard, isn't it?

Best to you, Jeff

p.s. Dave, If I knew how to give a gift membership to Rennlist, I'd get one for you. I figure you've saved me way more than $18.00, and I see that other members have also liked your posts!

 

Very interesting info, particularly from Dave.
Ferrari was sold to FIAT in 1969. Enzo retained some critical design and racing team control. Regardless; with this fateful decision, Ferrari, Lancia, Alfa Romeo and (of course) FIAT cars all inherited some raw material and component sharing. Some wonderful machines (all Alfas, Lancia Betas/Zagatos, and Ferraris (including 3x8 series) were built with FIAT purchased/eastern block sheet metal and Magnetti Marelli electrical components. Therein lies the virus in the otherwise heavenly body.

There are wonderful examples of 3x8s out there, but when these go to market, their over the top price reflects the care and feeding given by (a very few) discriminating POs. My 928 wasn't generally owned by such owners. The last PO and I set about rehabilitating the 928. Even during the rehabilitation period, this was a good driver and has cost less than than 3k to bring into robust, safe driving shape with satisfying presentation. There was hardly a speck of rust in the car when it came into my hands. There's no need to generate a new comparison of Porsche and Italian electricals. These are Porsche attributes and we are tuned into the affordable rehabilitation potential of many aging Porsche models. If one can get past the cost of F parts; take a look into the F chat forums at some of the body-off 3x8 make-overs. Look at the FIAT penetration rust hidden in the pillars and frame members, even when rust hasn't yet peeked through the external sheet metal. Picking up a 3x8, without a pedigree and traceable environment can be a very disappointing and ridiculously expensive proposition.

 

I find this interesting since I was having this conversation just the other day.

As far as performance my stock 79 SC would out perform a 308. Back in the 80's I had a friend with a 308 and it was a gorgeous car. Silver with black lower rockers sounded great and reminded me of my 914 sitting style with a steering wheel from a bus. I had another friend with a Mondial cab and what a POS. It was only good for being seen in. Not a sports car IMO just a car for someone who needs their ego to arrive before they do.

The 308 spent more time in the garage than on the street. One problem after another. After numerous times and most of its first year being flatbeded to the shop. It finally started becoming reliable but at a serious expense. We would go for drives and my SC would handle the turns better and accelerate stronger although IIRC the 308 out braked my SC. Parts would break on both the 308 and Mondial for no reason. The interior showed signs of wear with relatively little use. At the time the biggest problem was if something broke it would spend weeks in the shop to get repaired, not sure if today is any better.

As far as fit and finish. There is no way a Ferrari can be considered close to the fit and finish of a Porsche. Yes the interior detail is outstanding but panels never lined up perfectly and I have a friend that does clearbra installs and the differences from one car to the next is amazing. Even the Enzo's and F50's vary tremendously from one side of the car to the other. I had the opportunity to drive a 288GTO years ago. Car had less than 3k miles on it and it had parts falling off of it. Great looking car and if I had to own one it would more than likely be the GTO for looks alone although I would not consider it a fun car to drive.

The newer cars are better but still pricey and the 360 is no slouch the 430 is fast but IMO driving these cars is not comfortable. I would think if you wanted a car comparable to your 993 the F355 would be the best choice closest in value to the 993.

More interestingly is what I learned from a friend that worked for both Ferrari and Lamborghini. He is now in the US and works on both but is more retired than anything. I have numerous engine cases and other parts in my sheds from 308's,512's etc because the cases would crack and needed replacing. He is not a Porsche fan loves early Alfas and would still own a Porsche over a Ferrari himself. He feels they are a PITA to work on always have problems and does not consider them reliable. He would take an older Lambo over a an F car any day and has an extensive collection of cars.

I posted some pictures on is a Daytona which I will always like but had issues with rusting even garage kept. The 308's used some cheap parts back then especially these mirrors. The Mondial is not attractive IMO and the best of the bunch is the Dino which is outrageously pricey not super fast but still one of the few worth owning IMO.

 

Any Rennlist member or PCA member in the Cleveland area (or anyone passing thru the Cleveland area) is welcome to stop by my house to compare the 360 to the 993. They sit right beside each other in the garage (occasionally with an Alfa in the middle.......talk about poor fit/finish ). Come judge for yourself. I stand by my statement that that all 3 of my f-cars had a better finish (fit & build quality has been at least equal) than any of my 911's - and I've owned more 911's than Ferraris. In fact, I believe my garage will be on the NOR PCA Garage Tour next month. Again, any comparison is welcome. Come see them....get up close and look, compare details, touch them, look at them under fluorescent lighting, etc.

Again, not trying to put one marque over the other or be argumentative........just speaking from first hand experience and trying to be factual, objective and unbiased.

Cheers.

 

I was just stating what I have seen first hand. I love the looks of the Fcars and respect most of them for the great vehicles they are. Although they did have a period of time when they made few cars worth owning and that was when Porsche was taking over the sports car market. (308/328 years) My comments come from spending some time in my friends shop and having him point out the differences I was amazed. He uses kits to cover these cars and has done as many F cars as P cars and there is no comparison in his mind or mine. Visually they look fine but when matching a laser cut kit to an F car and you will find that it will fit one side not the other or one car and not the other. The F50 had nearly .600 difference in the panels on one side vs the other and the car was factory without damage or repair. BTW the kits were mirror images in size and shape. He says the Fcars are one of the few cars he needs to alter just about every kit to match the car unlike the 911's which are a better more consistent fit.

So although you might not detect the differences by looking at it, it was quite apparent when trying to install a clear bra on the car. I did say the newer cars 360's, 430's were better than the earlier cars. Don't get me wrong I have nothing against them and they are beautiful. Although looking at my friends F40 there is a lot to be desired as far as finish goes and the CF showing through the paint is not for me. It still doesn't mean i wouldn't give it the time of day just not interested in owning one.