Buying a Porsche 993
04-08-2009, 03:56 PM
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Buying a Porsche 993
Hi All,
My first post here on Rennlist.com – it’s long but hopefully covers most questions people seem to ask.
In preparation for buying my first Porsche, I’ve been studying various books and Rennlist threads and have learned a lot about the recent model types ( 964, 993, 996, 997 ) plus what to look for when purchasing one. Thanks to everyone at Rennlist for making so much information so easily available.
For a variety of reasons I’ve settled on the 993 as the one to purchase. My personal feelings are that the 993 is the one most likely to become a modern classic. I think it’s the car I’ll be happiest with anyway.
A little bit about myself, I live in Williamsburg Virginia ( Southeastern VA ) , work in real estate, and my main hobby is sailing – mostly cruising the Western Atlantic from the Bay of Fundy to the out-islands of the Bahamas. My years boating have taught me a lot about working on engines. For example, I spent last weekend doing a rear main oil seal job. I’m lucky in that my house has a heated and air conditioned workshop on the property easily big enough to drive a car into -- previous owner used it to build a small plane. From what I’ve read on Rennlist, engine skills and a big workshop make owning an older Porsche 911 a bit easier.
This is a car I’ll probably put 8K miles on per year – mostly around town and some weekend trips. I don’t plan on taking the car to the track.
To find the car, I’m looking at Rennlist, Autotrader, Craigslist, and Yahoo. I would prefer to purchase from an individual -- a good Rennlist or PCA guy -- rather than a dealership. Nothing against dealerships, but you never really learn anything about how the car was taken care of and their pricing always seems to be a bit off, especially when compared to actual sold prices. ( I could be wrong about this though ) I’m also not sure about buying an E-Bay car, although most E-Bay cars appear to be listed other places as well. Also, I’m doing this as a nationwide search to give myself the best chance to find the right car at the right price. I would prefer not to go all the way to the West coast but will for a great deal.
As of today, I’ve set aside 30K in the checking account for this project. I’m figuring about 25K for the car, 2K for extra insurance, temp tags, VA registration, VA inspection, and VA sales tax; 2K for a Porsche specific PPI, leakdown, misc. transfer fees, plane tickets, hotel rooms, tolls, gas, etc.; and 1K for anything that might go wrong on the way home.
The 993 I’m looking for…
Pretty much what you would expect – the right balance of exterior condition, mechanical integrity ( good suspension, clutch, valve guides, etc. ), options ( wife wants air-bags and a sunroof ), price, and mileage below 85K. I’m looking for a coupe with manual transmission and I would like one that is already in good shape versus a real low miles car that needs a lot of work. I don’t need a car that has a lot of hard core race track type mods – ultra low and hard suspension, big wing, track brakes, etc. An upgraded suspension that is set up for daily driving would be nice though. A non-smoking car is also a must. My preference in exterior colors would be, in order, -- grand prix white, artic silver, polar silver, black, and guard’s red. I’ll look for a leather interior and my hierarchy for interior colors would be one of the tans followed by one of the grays. ( a black interior might also work but summertime here in VA can get hot!!! ). I like the classic simple looks of the regular body two wheel drive car. It will really come down to condition, mileage, and colors I can live with.
I have the various “things to look for lists” from this forum so I can hopefully weed out potential problems before I order the PPI. I may also need some help from the Rennlisters understanding some of the very specialized modifications found on a few of these cars.
Please let me know if you see any serious flaws in my plan here. I’ve tried to study up as much as possible but I might have missed something. Also, if you’ve seen a car that might work, please send me an e-mail.
That’s about it for now. The search is underway and I’ll keep you posted. Thanks again for the wealth of information on the forum.
George
Williamsburg, VA
My first post here on Rennlist.com – it’s long but hopefully covers most questions people seem to ask.
In preparation for buying my first Porsche, I’ve been studying various books and Rennlist threads and have learned a lot about the recent model types ( 964, 993, 996, 997 ) plus what to look for when purchasing one. Thanks to everyone at Rennlist for making so much information so easily available.
For a variety of reasons I’ve settled on the 993 as the one to purchase. My personal feelings are that the 993 is the one most likely to become a modern classic. I think it’s the car I’ll be happiest with anyway.
A little bit about myself, I live in Williamsburg Virginia ( Southeastern VA ) , work in real estate, and my main hobby is sailing – mostly cruising the Western Atlantic from the Bay of Fundy to the out-islands of the Bahamas. My years boating have taught me a lot about working on engines. For example, I spent last weekend doing a rear main oil seal job. I’m lucky in that my house has a heated and air conditioned workshop on the property easily big enough to drive a car into -- previous owner used it to build a small plane. From what I’ve read on Rennlist, engine skills and a big workshop make owning an older Porsche 911 a bit easier.
This is a car I’ll probably put 8K miles on per year – mostly around town and some weekend trips. I don’t plan on taking the car to the track.
To find the car, I’m looking at Rennlist, Autotrader, Craigslist, and Yahoo. I would prefer to purchase from an individual -- a good Rennlist or PCA guy -- rather than a dealership. Nothing against dealerships, but you never really learn anything about how the car was taken care of and their pricing always seems to be a bit off, especially when compared to actual sold prices. ( I could be wrong about this though ) I’m also not sure about buying an E-Bay car, although most E-Bay cars appear to be listed other places as well. Also, I’m doing this as a nationwide search to give myself the best chance to find the right car at the right price. I would prefer not to go all the way to the West coast but will for a great deal.
As of today, I’ve set aside 30K in the checking account for this project. I’m figuring about 25K for the car, 2K for extra insurance, temp tags, VA registration, VA inspection, and VA sales tax; 2K for a Porsche specific PPI, leakdown, misc. transfer fees, plane tickets, hotel rooms, tolls, gas, etc.; and 1K for anything that might go wrong on the way home.
The 993 I’m looking for…
Pretty much what you would expect – the right balance of exterior condition, mechanical integrity ( good suspension, clutch, valve guides, etc. ), options ( wife wants air-bags and a sunroof ), price, and mileage below 85K. I’m looking for a coupe with manual transmission and I would like one that is already in good shape versus a real low miles car that needs a lot of work. I don’t need a car that has a lot of hard core race track type mods – ultra low and hard suspension, big wing, track brakes, etc. An upgraded suspension that is set up for daily driving would be nice though. A non-smoking car is also a must. My preference in exterior colors would be, in order, -- grand prix white, artic silver, polar silver, black, and guard’s red. I’ll look for a leather interior and my hierarchy for interior colors would be one of the tans followed by one of the grays. ( a black interior might also work but summertime here in VA can get hot!!! ). I like the classic simple looks of the regular body two wheel drive car. It will really come down to condition, mileage, and colors I can live with.
I have the various “things to look for lists” from this forum so I can hopefully weed out potential problems before I order the PPI. I may also need some help from the Rennlisters understanding some of the very specialized modifications found on a few of these cars.
Please let me know if you see any serious flaws in my plan here. I’ve tried to study up as much as possible but I might have missed something. Also, if you’ve seen a car that might work, please send me an e-mail.
That’s about it for now. The search is underway and I’ll keep you posted. Thanks again for the wealth of information on the forum.
George
Williamsburg, VA
04-08-2009, 04:18 PM
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Race Car
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It looks like a well thought out plan considering how many nice 993's have been for sale for those numbers lately. Look in the classifieds and the member to member classifieds as well. Personally I enjoy buying cars outside my geographic area of SoFla due to the high rate of un-cared for cars locally. If you search the forum you will see many write-ups by members that have roadtrip'd there way home in a 993. Good luck......
04-08-2009, 04:18 PM
#3
Race Car
Hi George. Welcome to Rennlist!
I think that your plan is good. However, the purchase price for the car you describe is a little low. $25k gets you a well maintained car with closer to 100k miles with cosmetics typical for that mileage. I see a lot of people wanting a perfect car (not exactly what you are describing) for bottom-of-the-market prices. In other words, spending closer to $30k will get you a much nicer car. Or staying in budget will get you a nice car with more miles.
If I were looking, I would get a car with upgraded suspension as the original suspension is definitely gone. 96+ car with valve guide job completed. And a good PPI to check for rust, accidents, compression, etc.
Others will chime in with opinions and suggestions. And maybe even a car to look at. I know someone in Dallas with a black/black car for sale in your price range. I checked it out for another rennlister who passed on the car. I have no affiliation with the seller.
Good luck. And remember, the search is a big part of the fun!
I think that your plan is good. However, the purchase price for the car you describe is a little low. $25k gets you a well maintained car with closer to 100k miles with cosmetics typical for that mileage. I see a lot of people wanting a perfect car (not exactly what you are describing) for bottom-of-the-market prices. In other words, spending closer to $30k will get you a much nicer car. Or staying in budget will get you a nice car with more miles.
If I were looking, I would get a car with upgraded suspension as the original suspension is definitely gone. 96+ car with valve guide job completed. And a good PPI to check for rust, accidents, compression, etc.
Others will chime in with opinions and suggestions. And maybe even a car to look at. I know someone in Dallas with a black/black car for sale in your price range. I checked it out for another rennlister who passed on the car. I have no affiliation with the seller.
Good luck. And remember, the search is a big part of the fun!
04-08-2009, 04:31 PM
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Welcome to Rennlist! I agree with Patrick, upping your budget a bit will get you closer to what you're looking for. That said, there are lots of good deals out there at the moment, so you may be able to hold to your budget and find something suitable. Just be patient and wait for the car that hits the sweetspot for you. Best of luck with your search.
04-08-2009, 04:36 PM
#6
Seared
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George,
Welcome and good luck with the search! A PPI should run $400 or so - not $1,000. Don't be afraid to scour the entire country - I purchased mine in Seattle and drove it home via Canada. 3,200 very memorable miles!
Andreas
Welcome and good luck with the search! A PPI should run $400 or so - not $1,000. Don't be afraid to scour the entire country - I purchased mine in Seattle and drove it home via Canada. 3,200 very memorable miles!
Andreas
04-08-2009, 04:37 PM
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I agree that your plan is solid with a couple of points to consider:
1. $25k will get you a 'decent' 993 with mileage around 95k. It may or may not need a suspension (the stock shocks are worn by as few as 40k miles) but in any event, plan on an additional $3,000 over and above your contingencies to build a margin of safety. If the car turns out to be well-sorted, you have a nice war chest to do some mods. I'm a guy with simple tastes and succumbed to the mod-virus. Don't try to fight it, resistance is futile. I'm sure it's the same with boats.
2. Don't be afraid of a black interior, even in Virginia. I ordered a custom-fit sunscreen for my car and it does a remarkable job keeping the car cool and the inside UV-protected, even in 95+ degree weather.
3. Pay up a little for a nice example. As you noted, buying from a Rennlister or PCA member isn't a panacea, but it may mean that an enthusiast owned and took care of the car. There are some 993-specific dealers you may want to consider as well (such as Holt Motorsports) who have decent reputations.
Good luck!
Jason
1. $25k will get you a 'decent' 993 with mileage around 95k. It may or may not need a suspension (the stock shocks are worn by as few as 40k miles) but in any event, plan on an additional $3,000 over and above your contingencies to build a margin of safety. If the car turns out to be well-sorted, you have a nice war chest to do some mods. I'm a guy with simple tastes and succumbed to the mod-virus. Don't try to fight it, resistance is futile. I'm sure it's the same with boats.
2. Don't be afraid of a black interior, even in Virginia. I ordered a custom-fit sunscreen for my car and it does a remarkable job keeping the car cool and the inside UV-protected, even in 95+ degree weather.
3. Pay up a little for a nice example. As you noted, buying from a Rennlister or PCA member isn't a panacea, but it may mean that an enthusiast owned and took care of the car. There are some 993-specific dealers you may want to consider as well (such as Holt Motorsports) who have decent reputations.
Good luck!
Jason
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04-08-2009, 04:40 PM
#8
Hello, George. I am very interested to know how your search turns out. You seem to be very well informed. Also, it must be great having your own workshop at home -- it'd be next to impossible to find a place like that out here on the west coast. Pretty cool... Best of luck and please keep us posted!
04-08-2009, 04:41 PM
#9
Wallflower
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Rennlist Member
Sold on a coupe, huh? C4 cab in guards red w/ 44k miles right here for sale soon.
Seriously, your plan looks good to me as well, but I'd second that you're probably setting the dollar bar at $25k a bit low.
Seriously, your plan looks good to me as well, but I'd second that you're probably setting the dollar bar at $25k a bit low.
04-08-2009, 04:54 PM
#10
Good luck with your search. It seems you've done your homework.
As some have already said, pony up a bit more cash to get what you really want. In the end, the money is gone anyway and it's important to get what you feel good about and with no compromises.
Patience is important; it's too easy to jump on the first few that look good.
At the risk of sounding "new-age-like" I think it's important to get a good vibe from the previous owner. Mean people are usually also mean to their cats, dogs, and cars
...and, most of all, post pics when the mission has been accomplished
As some have already said, pony up a bit more cash to get what you really want. In the end, the money is gone anyway and it's important to get what you feel good about and with no compromises.
Patience is important; it's too easy to jump on the first few that look good.
At the risk of sounding "new-age-like" I think it's important to get a good vibe from the previous owner. Mean people are usually also mean to their cats, dogs, and cars
...and, most of all, post pics when the mission has been accomplished
04-08-2009, 05:07 PM
#11
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Hi, George. Welcome! You're not the only sailor here.
There are two extremely strong SoCal candidates for sale right here on RL:
Aaron's Iris Blue '95
https://rennlist.com/forums/showthre...ferrerid=44637
Irondog's Polar Silver '95
https://rennlist.com/forums/showthre...ferrerid=44637
Two years ago, I paid $1,400 for coast to coast covered transport by DeMoise.
My only issue with your plan is "driving around town." When you start these cars, you have to warm them up properly, then find space to drive it somewhat aggressively. This can take at least 10 miles or 10 minutes. Be sure to limit those grocery store runs.
There are two extremely strong SoCal candidates for sale right here on RL:
Aaron's Iris Blue '95
https://rennlist.com/forums/showthre...ferrerid=44637
Irondog's Polar Silver '95
https://rennlist.com/forums/showthre...ferrerid=44637
Two years ago, I paid $1,400 for coast to coast covered transport by DeMoise.
My only issue with your plan is "driving around town." When you start these cars, you have to warm them up properly, then find space to drive it somewhat aggressively. This can take at least 10 miles or 10 minutes. Be sure to limit those grocery store runs.
04-08-2009, 05:23 PM
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There are two extremely strong SoCal candidates for sale right here on RL:
Aaron's Iris Blue '95
https://rennlist.com/forums/showthre...ferrerid=44637
Irondog's Polar Silver '95
https://rennlist.com/forums/showthre...ferrerid=44637
Aaron's Iris Blue '95
https://rennlist.com/forums/showthre...ferrerid=44637
Irondog's Polar Silver '95
https://rennlist.com/forums/showthre...ferrerid=44637
04-08-2009, 06:23 PM
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Hi Guys,
Thanks for all the notes so quickly. I do look forward to joining your ranks soon.
I catch your point about spending a little bit more to get a better car and I certainly have no objections to that. One reason I'm looking very hard at cars in this area is that a somewhat local car frees up more $$$ to spend on the car itself. For example, I would much rather spend 28K or 29K on a car that doesn't need anything than 25K on a car that needs to have a complete top-end rebuild right after I buy it. Although with the current downward pressure on the exotic car market I may not have to. We will see.
I did look online at both the cars mentioned. Very nice cars, not exactly what I'm looking for, but very close. Lots of cars to look at and I've got plenty of time. The only downside to a West coast car I can see is that the shipping takes up $1,600 (more or less) of what I can spend on the car. That and I never get to see the car before I buy it. For the right car though...
Thanks again,
George
Thanks for all the notes so quickly. I do look forward to joining your ranks soon.
I catch your point about spending a little bit more to get a better car and I certainly have no objections to that. One reason I'm looking very hard at cars in this area is that a somewhat local car frees up more $$$ to spend on the car itself. For example, I would much rather spend 28K or 29K on a car that doesn't need anything than 25K on a car that needs to have a complete top-end rebuild right after I buy it. Although with the current downward pressure on the exotic car market I may not have to. We will see.
I did look online at both the cars mentioned. Very nice cars, not exactly what I'm looking for, but very close. Lots of cars to look at and I've got plenty of time. The only downside to a West coast car I can see is that the shipping takes up $1,600 (more or less) of what I can spend on the car. That and I never get to see the car before I buy it. For the right car though...
Thanks again,
George
04-08-2009, 08:12 PM
#14
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That's easy, several owners on this site have completed a cross-country purchase and drove back home (Andreas comes to mind). Many on the board would be willing to check the car out for you (called a "Rennfax") and if the cursory inspection is satisfactory, you can have the car taken to a highly-regarded local shop for a PPI. Although my current 993 was a semi-local purchase, I recently went on a 1,500 mile solo round trip and had a blast.
04-08-2009, 09:53 PM
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Hi JasonF,
My original thought was to drive the car home from wherever it was located. I certainly don't mind driving ( I've round tripped Boston, Detroit, and Pittsburgh just in the past 6 months alone ) California is a bit longer though -- 6 days at 500 miles a day plus airfare out to CA, gas, tolls, motel rooms, etc. It seemed a bit much. Then I saw Intercity's transport offer on Rennlist and thought that would really make things easy, save miles on the car, and wasn't much different costwise from doing it myself. Once again, for the right car at the right price, I'm very open to a West coast car. We will see. I'm looking forward to the search process!
George
My original thought was to drive the car home from wherever it was located. I certainly don't mind driving ( I've round tripped Boston, Detroit, and Pittsburgh just in the past 6 months alone ) California is a bit longer though -- 6 days at 500 miles a day plus airfare out to CA, gas, tolls, motel rooms, etc. It seemed a bit much. Then I saw Intercity's transport offer on Rennlist and thought that would really make things easy, save miles on the car, and wasn't much different costwise from doing it myself. Once again, for the right car at the right price, I'm very open to a West coast car. We will see. I'm looking forward to the search process!
George