dcdude

No mention of top end. You're better with a '95 at 62K. Boxster wheels? I guess everyone changes wheels anyway. The ride may be a little stiff. I'm not sure if you wanted that or not. I'd want more detail/photo of the oil leak.

gjones1735

Thanks for the note dcdude68,

Is it the general feeling of the group that unless one of the OBDII cars has had a top end rebuild that you are generally safer with an OBDI car ( ie a '95 )? Do all the 1996 through 1998's eventually start flashing the check engine light due to carbon build up? How long is a top-end rebuild good for?

Thanks guys,

George

Kein_Ersatz

Echoing the thoughts of many, take your time, do PPI, driving it home can be a great experience to get to know the car and check it out in short order. My search lasted over a year.

You may also want to look into PCA MART http://www.pca.org/mart/classifieds.pl

JasonF

There's really no definitive answer, but it's safe to assume that eventually carbon will build up on the SAI passages. As you're probably aware, an OBD I car will also be afflicted with the problem, it just won't trigger the check engine light. There are tons of posts on the pros/cons of '95's versus 96-on 993's.

If done right (with better-than-factory valve guides) a fresh top end should last 100,000+ miles. I did the top end of my '95 last year and my oil consumption is virtually nonexistent between 5,000 mile oil changes.

The great thing about a 993 is that it retains all the classic charms of older 911's (built like a vault, austere-in-a-good-way styling, air cooled, reliable) with modern creature comforts (good a/c, easy to drive, etc...). But I guess you already know that!

I sold my first 993 to buy a 997, a decision I eventually regretted when the 997 turned out to be an unreliable train wreck.

grwoolf

The CEL issue on ODBII is a consideration, but somewhat overblown IMO. There are many ODBII cars out there with a 100k+ miles that don't have the CEL issue (more accurately described as an SAI issue). Try a search, there are a couple threads on this. The possibility of top end rebuild is common across all the 993 years as I understand things, so getting a 95 is no advantage there. A loose top end is a contnributing factor to the SAI/CEL issue on an ODBII car, but will also cause problems on an ODBI car as well and require the same expensive top end rebuild eventually. If you can find a car with the top end properly rebuilt, that is a big plus regardless of the year model.

Personally, I'd rather have the small boost in HP and torque of the varioram on the ODBII cars and deal with the CEL issue if it comes up. On top of that, most 95's have the basket handle (not my cup of tea) and do not have keyless entry.

dcdude

If you took two cars: a V-ram and a '95, both with clogged SAI, if the V-ram car has a CEL, you can still register and drive the '95. Some consider that to be an advantage.

I'd gladly give up my keyless entry if the Immobilizer went with it!

grwoolf

I agree that the SAI issue is a disadvantage of the 96+ cars, but I was trying to make the point that the crappy valve guides are a potential problem for all 993's. I see a lot of people treating the valve guide issue and the SAI issue as one in the same.

While a loose top end is certainly a contributing factor to the buildup in the SAI ports, there are other factors at play also. You can have a good top end and still have the SAI issue and you can have a loose top end and not have a SAI issue. If your 95 is burning through a quart of oil every 300 miles because of bad valve guides, you have an expensive issue to address whether your check engine light is on or not.

gjones1735

Hi again guys,


I spent about 4 hours last night going through old SAI/ CEL/ carbon build up/ valve-guide threads trying to get a good handle on all the issues. Not easy, since everyone seems to have a slightly different opinion. I think you guys have summed up exactly what it took me four hours to figue out ( the scariest four hours I think I've ever spent on any forum ) In the end, I've decide not to worry about it -- if I have to drive the car to New Hampshire to have a somewhat cheaper top-end rebuild done one day, well, that's just the way it is.

I know it takes time to answer all these newbie questions but I really do appreciate all the thoughtful responses. Keep sending the pm's and the links to cars for sale. Thanks again.


Sincerely,

George
Williamsburg, VA

dcdude

Exactly - agreed. The root cause is the same. The real difference then, is that the '95 lets you buy a little time, if needed, to get the fix done.

gjones1735

Hi Guys,


The search continues. My wife and I were looking over some of the cars for sale this weekend and spent some time debating all the issues with the 993. After all was said, we decided to bump up our purchase price limit another 5 to 10K and go for a much lower mileage car that might ( and I understand this is a mater of statistics and no guarantee ) be a little further away from a top-end rebuild / clutch/ suspension, etc. job.

Purchase price is now 25 to 35 K depending on car condition / location -- I appear to be sliding down the slippery slope before I even purchase a 993 :-)


George
Williamsburg, VA

dcdude

Good budget. Lots of nice cars seem to be turning up in that price range, oftentimes right here!

samsnead

Just buy the cleanest car that you can afford, don't worry about the year.

At best it will still be an 11 year old car, so there may be issues that pop up after purchase ( which is why it is best to have a 2-3K reserve).

You will know when you have found the right car, connecting with the owners help get a sense of a cars history. Maintenance records are key and see if you can get a handle on oil consumption.

There seem to be a lot of deals out there right now, however it seems that those chasing the cars on the low end have paid for it post purchase. Not to say that all the lower end vehicles are crap.

Jack B

I went thru the same process a year ago. Took 9 months to find it. Used all the sources you are using; found it on Rennlist and was able act fast. You'll ned to check Rennlist once or twice a day to beat out the competition, when the right one comes along. Bought mine from a guy in California, got a good PPI, and had it shipped to Richmond. Paid $31 for a 50,000 mile bone stock Polar Silver coupe. Good luck.

gjones1735

Thanks for the notes guys,


Jack, it's good to have a Rennlist guy right down the street!

At the moment, I'm looking at 4 cars very seriously. One Rennlist, one at Holt Motorsports, and two on AutoTrader -- the two on AutoTrader are owned by real enthusiasts as is, obviously, the Rennlist car. Tim at Holt hasn't got back to me yet with all the details on the fourth car. We will see.

All the cars are in the 25 to 40 K miles range for the low to mid thirties with varying levels of options. One has more miles ( mid 40's ), is red, rarely tracked, but could probably be had around 30K.

I'll keep you posted. Thanks again for all the advice.


George
Williamsburg, VA

JDHertz11

Which car at Holt? I sold him my 993NA and he still has it.