5 stages of auto sales
02-14-2009, 10:06 PM
#31
Burning Brakes
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Another thing to remember is that just about any "normal" Porsche is considerably cheaper these days. If the only reason a person is selling is to upgrade to a more expensive Porsche, a lower selling price really doesn't matter. The price difference between the two cars is more than likely smaller now than a year ago. Different story if you're selling just for the cash...........you'll lose. As I said before, everything is a tough sell these days, if you don't have to, don't do it.
+911+993+996+997
I was too lazy and buzzed to write this. Thank god someone is thinking straight tonight.
02-15-2009, 03:36 AM
#32
Rennlist Member
Look, until recently a 10ish year old 911 has generally run about 25% of what a new one cost over the nearly 30 years I've been in this "game". A 1980 SC was about $25K. Paid $6k for my '68. In '90 a 964 was over $60K. A decent SC was about $15K. In 2000 a 996 was pushing $75K. That '90 964.....now we've got a shift.......it was still in the $30Kish range. (I attribute the biggest reason is that prices of the new cars pretty much flattened out once the 993 and the manufacturing efficiencies were put into place.) As we look at the 993 at 10+ years old, an average one is at about 1/3 of a 2008. Should it come back down to 25%? Who knows? Market will speak.
And understand I'm talking about average condition cars that have been reasonably cared for over the years and not beat to hell.
And understand I'm talking about average condition cars that have been reasonably cared for over the years and not beat to hell.
02-15-2009, 12:59 PM
#33
Racer
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Very interesting. I very recently bought my 993 and I'm trying to sell my 968. Both nice cars.
My 993 was attractive and available at a price at which I perceived value. The seller did OK and so did I. Everyone lives happily ever after.
My 968 has lots of miles but lots of new and upgraded stuff that in my opinion make it more valuable than the offers I've received so far. That's OK with me. I don't have to sell and won't at a price below the value of the car to me.
For the record, offers have been about 25% below what I will take. Everybody wants a bargain.
As for the economy, the value/price of cars, and the relatively high "asking prices" we continue to see for cars, the key is asking price. Sellers' expectations continue to be high but the cars are not selling at those prices.
My 993 was attractive and available at a price at which I perceived value. The seller did OK and so did I. Everyone lives happily ever after.
My 968 has lots of miles but lots of new and upgraded stuff that in my opinion make it more valuable than the offers I've received so far. That's OK with me. I don't have to sell and won't at a price below the value of the car to me.
For the record, offers have been about 25% below what I will take. Everybody wants a bargain.
As for the economy, the value/price of cars, and the relatively high "asking prices" we continue to see for cars, the key is asking price. Sellers' expectations continue to be high but the cars are not selling at those prices.
02-15-2009, 01:54 PM
#34
I've emphasized the key word for you there.
PS. I'm a thief (sp.), apparently. I bought my 995 5+ years ago for $17K. John D. is another thief, having bought his for $18K at the same time. But you are obviously morally superior to us in every respect, since you paid twice as much for yours. Sheesh.
PS. I'm a thief (sp.), apparently. I bought my 995 5+ years ago for $17K. John D. is another thief, having bought his for $18K at the same time. But you are obviously morally superior to us in every respect, since you paid twice as much for yours. Sheesh.
Congrats! I am happy for anyone who can get a great deal on a car. I am not saying that $35-$40k is what you will have to pay for a 993 but, for example if you were to do a nation wide search on autotrader.com the average price is $36,173 (as of 2-15-09 @10:53 Mountain time). So you and John D. can pat yourselves on the back for holding out for a good deal. What you didn't include was how many miles you cars have, how the original paint is holding up, how the condition of the interior is, options list, and if the oh so precious maintainence records were included in the deal etc etc. As many people have stated if you have one of these cars and are not in a hurry to sell you should not have a problem selling it for a good price.
02-15-2009, 02:39 PM
#35
Racer
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Lets also not forget those who will offer the deal of the century because you can buy their car at the same rate the dealer offered for trade-in (see 997 board for current offer). Now this offer is usally $10k over market value where the typical Rennlist offer is only $5k over market value. 
Congrats! I am happy for anyone who can get a great deal on a car. I am not saying that $35-$40k is what you will have to pay for a 993 but, for example if you were to do a nation wide search on autotrader.com the average price is $36,173 (as of 2-15-09 @10:53 Mountain time). So you and John D. can pat yourselves on the back for holding out for a good deal. What you didn't include was how many miles you cars have, how the original paint is holding up, how the condition of the interior is, options list, and if the oh so precious maintainence records were included in the deal etc etc. As many people have stated if you have one of these cars and are not in a hurry to sell you should not have a problem selling it for a good price.
02-15-2009, 02:40 PM
#36
[QUOTE=CDILL;6287709]Congrats! I am happy for anyone who can get a great deal on a car. I am not saying that $35-$40k is what you will have to pay for a 993 but, for example if you were to do a nation wide search on autotrader.com the average price is $36,173 (as of 2-15-09 @10:53 Mountain time).
These are asking prices & do not indicate selling prices.
As many people have stated if you have one of these cars and are not in a hurry to sell you should not have a problem selling it for a good price.[/QUOTE]
Really ? Last time I checked, the Dow was at 7850, credit is very difficult to come by, unemployment is up & there is little likelihood of any positive economic news in the next two quarters. It is now possible to buy a '05 997 with less than 50k for under $40k.
I think you might want to recalibrate your 993 value expectations.
These are asking prices & do not indicate selling prices.
As many people have stated if you have one of these cars and are not in a hurry to sell you should not have a problem selling it for a good price.[/QUOTE]
Really ? Last time I checked, the Dow was at 7850, credit is very difficult to come by, unemployment is up & there is little likelihood of any positive economic news in the next two quarters. It is now possible to buy a '05 997 with less than 50k for under $40k.
I think you might want to recalibrate your 993 value expectations.
02-15-2009, 05:05 PM
#37
Weathergirl
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When it was first possible to buy a newer, faster, better handling, etc etc '99-01 996 for <$30k, it didn't affect 993 prices at all. A dealer with an ex-lease 997 on his lot has quite a bit more pressure to sell it than most of the people here. There'll be some great deals... if you want a 997.
Your comments about the economy are somewhat valid. The recently laid off aren't likely to be 993 shopping, of course. Availability of car loans is just fine, if you check your bank instead of the papers. The #1 issue right now is confidence and mood. Most of the same people who might have bought a 993 two years ago still could, but many of them feel they ought not to. Frivolous or conspicuous consumption is out of style now.
Your comments about the economy are somewhat valid. The recently laid off aren't likely to be 993 shopping, of course. Availability of car loans is just fine, if you check your bank instead of the papers. The #1 issue right now is confidence and mood. Most of the same people who might have bought a 993 two years ago still could, but many of them feel they ought not to. Frivolous or conspicuous consumption is out of style now.
02-15-2009, 05:18 PM
#38
Addict
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Bank _car_ loans would be irrelevant to 993s - a bank will not write a loan on 10+ year old car. HELOCs are very relevant, as this is where a lot of people got money. And you know the availability of HELOCs today.
Jon, you make a very valid point about Victory and Truespeed. I'd be curious if anything sells there now. And if it does - how far below the prices of a year ago. If it went down by 25% (let's say from $45K to $34K), I don't see why private values would not go down by the same percentage ($32K to 24K). Certainly seems that 25% is about the right drop on the private side in the last 7-8 months.
Jon, you make a very valid point about Victory and Truespeed. I'd be curious if anything sells there now. And if it does - how far below the prices of a year ago. If it went down by 25% (let's say from $45K to $34K), I don't see why private values would not go down by the same percentage ($32K to 24K). Certainly seems that 25% is about the right drop on the private side in the last 7-8 months.
02-15-2009, 05:35 PM
#39
Rennlist Member
When it was first possible to buy a newer, faster, better handling, etc etc '99-01 996 for <$30k, it didn't affect 993 prices at all. A dealer with an ex-lease 997 on his lot has quite a bit more pressure to sell it than most of the people here. There'll be some great deals... if you want a 997.
Your comments about the economy are somewhat valid. The recently laid off aren't likely to be 993 shopping, of course. Availability of car loans is just fine, if you check your bank instead of the papers. The #1 issue right now is confidence and mood. Most of the same people who might have bought a 993 two years ago still could, but many of them feel they ought not to. Frivolous or conspicuous consumption is out of style now.
Your comments about the economy are somewhat valid. The recently laid off aren't likely to be 993 shopping, of course. Availability of car loans is just fine, if you check your bank instead of the papers. The #1 issue right now is confidence and mood. Most of the same people who might have bought a 993 two years ago still could, but many of them feel they ought not to. Frivolous or conspicuous consumption is out of style now.
As far as conspicuous consumption, I hardly think of a 993 as conspicuous. Pretty generic in whatever form. Sure, a nice one will get a comment or two sometimes. After moving along the cheap '94 cab, I'm back sniffing around for a sub $25K cab as a third 993. Two nice ones being peddled around that price on Craigslist here, seemingly no takers. Many more at $30K or over. Ads pop up again and again and again. No idea if those guys are firm on price, but I know damn well there aren't many buyers out there who: 1. don't have to sell what they already have, 2. get wife's permission, 3. have a lot more cash in the bank account than what the purchase price might be, 4. aren't anally particular. By all rights I should be considering one of these "market corrected" 997's. I'm just not interested in expensive cars, nor cars that I don't have the experience to fix from popping in new valve guides to painting a bumper.
02-15-2009, 06:12 PM
#40
Burning Brakes
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02-15-2009, 06:52 PM
#41
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Bank _car_ loans would be irrelevant to 993s - a bank will not write a loan on 10+ year old car. HELOCs are very relevant, as this is where a lot of people got money. And you know the availability of HELOCs today.
Jon, you make a very valid point about Victory and Truespeed. I'd be curious if anything sells there now. And if it does - how far below the prices of a year ago. If it went down by 25% (let's say from $45K to $34K), I don't see why private values would not go down by the same percentage ($32K to 24K). Certainly seems that 25% is about the right drop on the private side in the last 7-8 months.
Jon, you make a very valid point about Victory and Truespeed. I'd be curious if anything sells there now. And if it does - how far below the prices of a year ago. If it went down by 25% (let's say from $45K to $34K), I don't see why private values would not go down by the same percentage ($32K to 24K). Certainly seems that 25% is about the right drop on the private side in the last 7-8 months.
All things are relative, so who cares. You sell a 993 at a deflated price, you'll buy another car at a deflated price. If anyone ever thought these things are collectors cars and were going to appreciate in value they need their head examined.
02-15-2009, 07:08 PM
#43
Rennlist Member
I appreciate all the wisdom in this thread about how to and how not to sell a car and the expectations one might have in doing so. When and if I have to sell my car this spring/summer (if my job turns to shi* like it looks like it will, I'll reluctantly try to sell it) my ad will read something like this:
96 C4S, $40k, tons of miles (84k), has rock chips on the front and some road rash on the wheels, CEL has been on for 2 years so it needs to have that fixed (SAI issue). No current pics but heh, it's polar silver with black interior - seen one, seen em' all. The driver's bolster needs to be redyed to make it nicer looking. The mats are needing replacing as they show wear. It rides kind of rough after recent suspension upgrade - will probably leave your teeth chattering if you're not used to driving a Porsche. I don't really have time to show it but if you really want it, you just have to have it, then I guess we can make some sort of arrangement for you to see it. Don't jerk my chain, don't kick it's tires - just basically, take it or leave it. Feel free to leave it. Please don't ask me for to have a PPI done on it. Just talk to my current mechanic. He'll explain all the stuff it needs or doesn't need. In fact, no worries if you don't want it. It's a potential money pit - why would you? If I end up having to keep it because none of you want it, then that's my problem. My wife will be pissed that I didn't sell it, but it's not like I didn't try. I mean, I ran this ad, and tried to field a few calls. Yeah, it's a bit over priced, but dang, I'm not giving this thing away. Call Steve but only from 830am-9am. I am too busy to answer calls about it any other time. 301-555-5555. PS - Please don't ask me to email you 30+ pics. Like I said, silver w/black. It's in my avatar - that should satisfy that request.
96 C4S, $40k, tons of miles (84k), has rock chips on the front and some road rash on the wheels, CEL has been on for 2 years so it needs to have that fixed (SAI issue). No current pics but heh, it's polar silver with black interior - seen one, seen em' all. The driver's bolster needs to be redyed to make it nicer looking. The mats are needing replacing as they show wear. It rides kind of rough after recent suspension upgrade - will probably leave your teeth chattering if you're not used to driving a Porsche. I don't really have time to show it but if you really want it, you just have to have it, then I guess we can make some sort of arrangement for you to see it. Don't jerk my chain, don't kick it's tires - just basically, take it or leave it. Feel free to leave it. Please don't ask me for to have a PPI done on it. Just talk to my current mechanic. He'll explain all the stuff it needs or doesn't need. In fact, no worries if you don't want it. It's a potential money pit - why would you? If I end up having to keep it because none of you want it, then that's my problem. My wife will be pissed that I didn't sell it, but it's not like I didn't try. I mean, I ran this ad, and tried to field a few calls. Yeah, it's a bit over priced, but dang, I'm not giving this thing away. Call Steve but only from 830am-9am. I am too busy to answer calls about it any other time. 301-555-5555. PS - Please don't ask me to email you 30+ pics. Like I said, silver w/black. It's in my avatar - that should satisfy that request.
Last edited by Steve 96C4S; 02-15-2009 at 10:17 PM.
02-15-2009, 07:13 PM
#44
Addict
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
More to the point - if the same $35K were invested in stock, it'd be down by the same 25% today, if not more. So I personally don't see any problem with the current values, however much down they are.
02-15-2009, 07:16 PM
#45
Addict
Rennlist Member
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Steve, I think that's excellent strategy. There are always buyers who are willing, you only need one, I promise to call you in the morning... insert your own here 