logan2z

Here's the contents of a CarFax report I ran on a 993 that I am thinking of purchasing. It had a lot more in its history than I was expecting! Has this car had a chequered past or is this all fairly standard stuff and no cause for alarm?

It looks like the car was sold at auction in 1998. Is that a red flag or not particularly unusual? I'm also curious as to why there were so many new titles issued in the first couple of years in Texas, even though they are all attributed to the first owner. Seems odd, but maybe something peculiar to Texas? The only other 'troubling' things I noticed are the filter relay recall that seems to have never been dealt with (at least that's how I interpret the part of the CarFax that says '1 open recall') and the current owner told me he's owned the car for 4 years, yet the report shows the last purchase was in '06. Not sure if CarFax somehow determined that there were two owners since '04 when there was only one. Oh, and there was a failed emissions test in 07/06 but then it passed in 08/06. Anyway, here's the complete report:

Owner 1
Purchased: 1996
Type: Personal
Where: Texas
Est. miles/year: ---
Est. length owned: 8/15/96 - 9/24/98
(2 yrs. 1 mo.)
Date: Mileage: Source: Comments:
08/15/1996
Texas
Motor Vehicle Dept.
Houston, TX
Registered as
personal vehicle
10/17/1996
48 Texas
Motor Vehicle Dept.
Houston, TX
Title
#00022200051242025
Title or registration issued
First owner reported
Loan or lien reported
09/26/1997
5,701 Texas
Motor Vehicle Dept.
Austin, TX
Title
#00022200052013519
Title or registration issued
Loan or lien reported
01/14/1998
Texas
Motor Vehicle Dept.
Austin, TX
Title
#22731735799124639
Title or registration issued
Loan or lien reported
09/24/1998
12,148 Auto Auction
Pacific SW Region
Vehicle sold
09/28/1998
California
Inspection Station
Anaheim, CA
Passed emissions inspection

Owner 2
Purchased: 1998
Type: Personal
Where: California
Est. miles/year: ---
Est. length owned: 10/9/98 - 11/30/99
(1 yr. 1 mo.)
Date: Mileage: Source: Comments:
10/09/1998
12,150 California
Motor Vehicle Dept.
Odometer reading reported
11/25/1998
California
Motor Vehicle Dept.
Title issued or updated
New owner reported
Loan or lien reported
02/04/1999
Porsche Cars North
America
Manufacturer recall issued
#AX03 Filter relay

Owner 3
Purchased: 1999
Type: Personal
Where: California
Est. miles/year: ---
Est. length owned: 11/30/99 - 1/28/04
(4 yrs. 1 mo.)
Date: Mileage: Source: Comments:
11/30/1999
13,125 California
Motor Vehicle Dept.
Rancho Santa
Margarita, CA
Odometer reading reported
02/19/2000
16,428 California
Inspection Station
Santa Ana, CA
Passed emissions inspection
02/28/2000
California
Motor Vehicle Dept.
Rancho Santa
Margarita, CA
Title issued or updated
New owner reported
10/06/2001
21,618 California
Inspection Station
Santa Ana, CA

Owner 4
Purchased: 2004
Type: Personal
Where: California
Est. miles/year: ---
Est. length owned: 1/28/04 - 4/24/06
(2 yrs. 2 mo.)
Date: Mileage: Source: Comments:
01/28/2004
26,200 California
Motor Vehicle Dept.
Carlsbad, CA
Title issued or updated
New owner reported
02/04/2004
26,598 California
Inspection Station

Owner 5
Purchased: 2006
Type: Personal
Where: California
Est. miles/year: ---
Est. length owned: 4/24/06 - present
(2 yrs. 6 mo.)
Date: Mileage: Source: Comments:
04/24/2006
29,044 California
Motor Vehicle Dept.
Huntington Beach,
CA
Title issued or updated
New owner reported
07/13/2006
29,165 California
Inspection Station
Failed emissions inspection
08/26/2006
29,460 California
Inspection Station
Passed emissions inspection

Should I run away, or should a clean PPI be enough to put my mind at ease?

ppashley

Well, as you know a PPI is what you need.

Carfax is interesting information to digest but is often incomplete.

In your case it would appear that there are questions over the number of owners its had over the last 4 years (1 vs 2). This might be easily explained, but I would need to understand this.

The fact the car was sold at auction 2/3 years into its life, might suggest its had accident damage, but on the other hand it might just mean the owner wanted a quick sale.

That said, if you have a well respected mechanic, FULLY check the car out with a PPI, checking body panels, repaired accident damage etc., then that might give you sufficient comfort.

These are older cars that are going to have several owners, they're going to have history.

Personally I wouldn't touch a car that has previously sold at auction.

Good Luck.

Phil

Bull

I wouldn't worry about a sale at auction in itself. In our region there is a "Hi-Line" auction every other Thursday, where most of the cars are brought by dealers and sold to dealers (you must be a dealer to sell or bid). Often, these were trade-in cars and the dealer has no interest in keeping that brand in stock. In other cases, the car has been on their pre-owned inventory for over 60-90 days and they want to keep their stock fresh.

Auction or not, the same detailed PPI needs to be completed on any car. Done correctly, the PPI will reveal any previous accident damage and repair, and will verify the mechanical health of the vehicle.

And beware of CARFAX reports. OFTEN, there is missing accident info, etc. If the owner decides to not report the accident to their insurance carrier or file an accident report, the accident will never be reported to CARFAX. In addition, some States and insurance companies are well known for reporting VERY late to CARFAX. Recently a nearby State send the past three years of reports to CARFAX all at the same time in August.

TheOtherEric

It kind of pains me when 993's get sold at auction, but like Bull said there are often totally legit reasons for it. One problem is that they toss out ALL records for the car; any maintenance history is lost, and they often even throw out the owners manuals too. Since all history is lost, I'd avoid cars that were just recently sold at auction.

Damien Lewis

Hi...couple of things from my personal experience...a car sold at an auction two years after purchased new could be indicative of a lease return that Porsche Motor Cars or another bank put up for wholesale auction...In addition, most dealers use wholesalers who sometimes auction cars off for a quick return.

As far as multiple registrations/titles go...sometimes the multiple title changes (ie: different lienholders) can be with one owner...I just bought out my lease from the bank I was leasing my car from with another bank (this now means that I have changed the title twice since owning my car - this would show up on carfax as two different owners, however, its just two different banks...same owner).

As always, your best and only real option for security when buying a Porsche is a PPI...The car you are looking at might be perfect for you..but only a PPI will really tell.

Good luck!!!

Damien Lewis

RodKnock

Five owners, failed emissions, multiple titles, multiple cities, in a couple States, sold at auction, etc. Personally, and only my opinion, I would walk away unless you really, really love the color, condition, amd year/model type. There are a lot of beautiful 993's out there to spend the $$$ on a PPI. Obviously, a car from RL'er would be an excellent choice.

dcdude

By the time you get the color and condition you want, these cars get kinda rare. We constantly encourage each other to expand their searches beyond their home state. As a result, these cars travel around. So which is it?

Rather than reasons to buy, I thought with carfax you're primarily looking for reasons to reject, such accident or flood history on carfax. Although just cuz it's not there, doesn't mean there wasn't a major or minor fender bender. A police report triggers those events on carfax. Ask Laura if Hergie's has a paint gauge. That should be part of their PPI.

Sold at auction is a ding, but not a deal-killer for me.

If anything, these issues could be used as negotiating tools.

Stealth 993

IMHO, I don't care how many owners it has, or how it was purchased.

What matters to me, is did the owners take care of it, & is it a good solid car?

Bearclaw

+1
It's probably less likely with a car like this, but in my experience, having more owners who loved this car and took care of it, and then sold it before they lost interest, can be a more favorable history than having only one or two long-time owners who lost interest and neglected the car.

As always, PPI rules.

hpuck

I'll bet this car was a leased vehicle. Porsche offered a 2 year warranty which might account for the 1st sale @ 2 yrs out.
Pretty normal.
Good luck.

Bill

Chuck W.

Right color, right options, clean PPI and a good price...... go for it.

black ice

I am in agreement with chuck (dcdude). All I've ever felt comfortable with is using Carfax to filter out the worst candidates and to have a bargaining chip for marginal candidates. Good example - my car came with a clean carfax but when I saw it in person it was clear the bumper and right rear quarter had been resprayed. So I showed up fairly comfortable it wasn't a total basket case, but someone had fixed this car off the record, so to speak.

dave

RodKnock

Obviously, just my opinion. There are always exceptions to every rule, certainly having every piece of documentation from all five + owners, but when they switch hands often, the likelihood of maintenance getting missed goes up. Also, the SF Bay Area has a lot Porsches, and many **** owners and the OP is located in there/here.

logan2z

Thanks for all of the feedback guys. So what I'm hearing is that most of you would feel comfortable pulling the trigger on this car if it was given a thorough PPI and came back with a clean bill of health. As long as there was no sign of previous accident damage, I think I'd feel pretty comfortable moving forward on it. Let's see what the PPI says...

holy911

I had a good education from my P mechanic the other day. The thing to look for is when the car has hopped to several auctions and different states in a short span. We reviewed the Carfax on a pretty 993 with ~80 miles. Looks pretty in the pictures.

The CF shows it has hopped from Texas to Florida 3 times in one year, all auctions. He said this is often a way to, I'll say, "launder" the title. It could have been a flood vehicle from the past years hurricane, repaired at different shops, who sold it to the auction wholesalers, then hops around between states. Somewhere along the line, it loses it's salvage title after much paperwork and filing around.

Now this pretty car is not so pretty anymore. However, it could also be a great car. But the CF history is too questionable.