hutch

I have a 98 C2S, can't get this 3.8 out of my head. I am considering several options, cylinders, oem or LN engineering. I am also trying to decide whether to use the slip in or bore in cylinders. I talked with Charles at LN about their cylinders and they sound good, but has anyone had experience whith them?

race911

What are you trying to accomplish? Making an equivalent donation to your favorite charity will probably give you a warmer, fuzzier feeling inside.

If you're in/near me feel free to try mine. But it has revised gearing, which is much, much more important than the little bit a 150cc extra displacement gives.

Bill Verburg

I love my 3.8, the bene is torque everywhere and all the time, gearing is of course very helpful too. You don't need the vram intake but it does enhance torque even more in the mid ranges

As far as I can see there are going to be 2 or 3 routes to go depending on cams, intake and usage
1st tier
1)oem Mahle 102/109, very strong, reliable but a little heavy for a rev meister motor works well w/ 7k rev limit and Rs or SS type cams, can be used w/ happier cams but rods will need to be upgraded for increased revs and the heaviest pistons will always be a hindrance
2)9m 102 or 103 lighter than Mahle, good for a rev happy motor, you still want to upgrade rods for reliability but the lighter pistons are a big plus in the pursuit of revs. There are some very nice 9M cams and Geoffrey has been going little a different direction in this area w/ very impressive results. In the pursuit of revs and throttle response, itb intakes will likely work best w/ happy cams

2nd tier
3)Mahle 102/102, not as strong as the 102/109 but cheaper
4) LN/JE I think highly of the cylinder not so much on the pistons

M. Schneider

Well said ~

When my 993 was across the pond (2001) and at Porsche's Werk 1 facility I gave the 3.8 enhancement more than a thought. The afternoon's test drive in their 3.8 would seal the deal, or so you would have thought. Sure the torque numbers are up which was my goal - however the 3.8 loaner 993 also was mated with the “closer ratio” G50/21 gearbox. Later in the same day after driving a 2nd loaner (lowly 3.6) 993 with only the “closer ratio” G50/21 gearbox, I made the choice to jettison the 3.8 enhancement idea. For me the bottom line was how much of the 3.8s displacement enhancement would be noticed while driving at Vail’s 8200’ elevation verses cost $? The G50/21 gearbox gave the 993 a little more snap which was lost to the thin air at altitude. The G50/21 gearbox was worth every penny.

Edit: A rough performance rule of thumb, in normally aspirated speak is to deduct -2.5% of specific output for every 1000 feet above sea level. Mother nature says "can you spell turbo" ~

Stealth 993

Has anyone used Wisco, or JE pistons?

I to dream about doing a nice 3.8l!

mike993c2s

+1. My mechanic actually talked me out of doing it..... expensive upgrade, and probably not worth it unless you plan to track the car a lot and want to keep it normally aspirated.

Steve Weiner-Rennsport Systems

Hi Bill,

Mr. Verburg offered some good advice and I'd add a few things to it.

I don't use the 102mm Mahle slip-in piston/cylinder sets any longer due to ring sealing issues from bore distortion. The RSR thick-walled, bore-in ones are much more durable although different rods are required for the RSR pistons. Thats a good thing since one doesn't want to use the OEM 993 rods anyway. We also use a premium rod bearing instead of the OEM Glyco's due to QC issues.

My main concern is always durability-reliability-longevity with regard to street engines. IMHO, the current crop of 2618 pistons from JE, CP, Wiseco, Wossner, Perfect Bore, et al, do not last anywhere near as long as Mahles although they are significantly lighter. While thats great for competition engines where engine life is measured in hours, its not always the best choice when engines are expected to last 100K. You get what you pay for.

Lastly, OBD-II compliance may or may not be a priority but its a consideration when pondering other modifications such as non-factory cams and aftermarket intakes and/or Engine management.

hutch

I already have the gearing, I purchased a G50-31. I will go with stock RS cams and valves. The RS used the same rods with bore in cylinders, what would be wrong with this setup?

race911

And even if you track it, I doubt it matters for much more than a second a lap at Thunderhill. At some point when I want to significantly change the yellow car I'll cobble together some turbo setup on one of the 3.6 engines I have laying around.

cmoss

Could that be?...

No...

Yes! The Screaming Yellow Zonker!

I always wondered what happened to that car. Kim offered me a ride in it years ago before the 3.8 conversion. First time on a track--just riding along--and I was hooked.

mike993c2s

Agreed. For that much money, some sort of forced induction makes a more sense to me too (and more hp for the buck). Maybe even a 993TT...... but then again, a TT is a totally different kind of car

Bill Verburg

Nothing, you will have a nice, reliable and tractable motor that screams as it gets to the high 6's. and there will be a bunch of critcs that secretly wish that they had one too.

The hard part might be getting a chip for it, there seem to be fewer motronic chip specialists every year.

Steve Weiner-Rennsport Systems

Thats not a problem at all,....

We have the factory 3.8 RS mapping as well as other options for these V-Ram engines.

Bill Verburg

I had mine done on a dyno by a firm that has since ceased to exist, I can only think of 1 other firm that is currently doing that.

factory chip parameters for a factory confiuration engine ought to work fine.

I'm leaning toward Motec if and when I do it again.