OT: BMW hardtop Conv. w/ MAJOR failure - Updated
06-24-2008, 12:07 AM
#32
Race Director
Thread Starter
I'm damn glad she doesn't put anything in the trunk and gets upset with me when I do.
Yes, I wasn't thrilled about this purchase but just didn't have any definitive data I could use that would talk my wife out of buying it. She would not be denied. My biggest regret is not leasing it for a 3 or 4 yr term. Oh well, live and learn.
Yes, I wasn't thrilled about this purchase but just didn't have any definitive data I could use that would talk my wife out of buying it. She would not be denied. My biggest regret is not leasing it for a 3 or 4 yr term. Oh well, live and learn.
06-26-2008, 04:27 PM
#33
Race Director
Thread Starter
BMW is monitoring this thread too....
BMW has been monitoring this thread too, details later.
On Wed. afternoon my BMW Service Adviser and I were finally able to hook up after playing phone tag. Short version, techs and BMW know we didn't do anything to cause failure. Failure was caused by the pins in top of the (inside) trunk that go up and into the bottom of the rear windshield and latch the windshield were supposed to release an drop into the trunk (?) but only the right one did, the drivers side (left) one didn't. This caused a daisy chain of events when the rear windshield got cockeyed and threw the right side arm assy's into contortions causing the roof sections to wind up in the angles you saw in the photos.
BMW Germany decided the best course of action is to replace the entire top! A new hardtop assy will be assembled at the factory in Germany, painted at the factory in Germany and shipped to the dealer in Nashville! Short of replacing the entire car for us this is by far about as good an outcome as I could expect from any manufacturer. It will take about 9 -12 weeks for the top to get here and we were told the top was back up and on the car in the full up position and we could take it but not drop the top. However, I told our Serv. Adv. that neither my wife nor I would be comfortable driving the car in that condition and would be leaving it at the dealer until it was repaired. Our SA said she understood and would make a loaner vehicle available whenever we needed it.
My wife works in Dallas during the week and is usually only home Fri. afternoon thru early Mon. AM but for the next 3 weeks she'll be visiting siblings in other cities so BMW is really getting off easy on the loaner car issue in my opinion, but I'm grateful BMW & BMW of Nashville is working with us on resolving this problem and I'm VERY happy the top assy. isn't going to be taken apart and reassembled by service techs at the dealer who have never done one before!
Overall I think BMW is doing the best that can be done with this repair and I commend them for it.
Now, from the bet you didn't know dept.: BMW has people reading this forum! I got a call this afternoon from a young lady from BMW's Internet Research Dept. She said she saw this post on the Rennlist Forum about my 328 Conv Top failure and was asking if there was anything she could do to help resolve the issue! I informed her of the info above but that I hadn't had time to update the RL posting but I was very satisfied with BMW's handling of the situation and that I would be updating my RL posting as soon as I got a chance.
Then I asked her how she got my name and phone number from a RL posting? She said she tracked it down through BMW's database and that it wasn't too hard since our car is the only HT Conv. to have had such a failure. (pretty much as I suspected) I do however find it interesting that BMW is monitoring a Porsche forum for BMW information and that they would let that information be known to the forum members.
On Wed. afternoon my BMW Service Adviser and I were finally able to hook up after playing phone tag. Short version, techs and BMW know we didn't do anything to cause failure. Failure was caused by the pins in top of the (inside) trunk that go up and into the bottom of the rear windshield and latch the windshield were supposed to release an drop into the trunk (?) but only the right one did, the drivers side (left) one didn't. This caused a daisy chain of events when the rear windshield got cockeyed and threw the right side arm assy's into contortions causing the roof sections to wind up in the angles you saw in the photos.
BMW Germany decided the best course of action is to replace the entire top! A new hardtop assy will be assembled at the factory in Germany, painted at the factory in Germany and shipped to the dealer in Nashville! Short of replacing the entire car for us this is by far about as good an outcome as I could expect from any manufacturer. It will take about 9 -12 weeks for the top to get here and we were told the top was back up and on the car in the full up position and we could take it but not drop the top. However, I told our Serv. Adv. that neither my wife nor I would be comfortable driving the car in that condition and would be leaving it at the dealer until it was repaired. Our SA said she understood and would make a loaner vehicle available whenever we needed it.
My wife works in Dallas during the week and is usually only home Fri. afternoon thru early Mon. AM but for the next 3 weeks she'll be visiting siblings in other cities so BMW is really getting off easy on the loaner car issue in my opinion, but I'm grateful BMW & BMW of Nashville is working with us on resolving this problem and I'm VERY happy the top assy. isn't going to be taken apart and reassembled by service techs at the dealer who have never done one before!
Overall I think BMW is doing the best that can be done with this repair and I commend them for it.
Now, from the bet you didn't know dept.: BMW has people reading this forum! I got a call this afternoon from a young lady from BMW's Internet Research Dept. She said she saw this post on the Rennlist Forum about my 328 Conv Top failure and was asking if there was anything she could do to help resolve the issue! I informed her of the info above but that I hadn't had time to update the RL posting but I was very satisfied with BMW's handling of the situation and that I would be updating my RL posting as soon as I got a chance.
Then I asked her how she got my name and phone number from a RL posting? She said she tracked it down through BMW's database and that it wasn't too hard since our car is the only HT Conv. to have had such a failure. (pretty much as I suspected) I do however find it interesting that BMW is monitoring a Porsche forum for BMW information and that they would let that information be known to the forum members.
06-26-2008, 04:39 PM
#34
That makes sense for a car company to monitor the majority of car related boards. Thats pretty nice though that they monitor this enough to pay attention and get ahold of you about it. I had something like this problem happen with Nissan and they were less than accomodating. Obviously cars aren't alll going to be 100%, but the fact that BMW is trying their hardest to fix the problem is a really nice move.
06-26-2008, 05:40 PM
#36
Addict
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
I think that's pretty ridiculous ... they should either replace the car with a new one or give you the use of an equivalent convertible for the three months they expect to keep it off the road. You bought a convertible to be able to drive it with the top down, and it's summer, which is convertible season.
Imagine if you had leased the car, and your payment was $600 a month ... you would be out $1800 worth of use of the car due to a warranty issue. Suppose Porsche said, "Here, you can have your 996 back for three months until the new transmission comes in, but you can't use reverse."
I think I would be looking into the state's statute regarding lemon laws, because in Massachusetts, there are a certain number of days the car can be in the shop for repair before they have to give you a new one or your money back.
This is a design flaw, plain and simple, and to say it's going to take 9-12 weeks to repair it is unacceptable, in my view, not when you have paid a lot of money for a luxury car.
You are a very reasonable guy!
Imagine if you had leased the car, and your payment was $600 a month ... you would be out $1800 worth of use of the car due to a warranty issue. Suppose Porsche said, "Here, you can have your 996 back for three months until the new transmission comes in, but you can't use reverse."
I think I would be looking into the state's statute regarding lemon laws, because in Massachusetts, there are a certain number of days the car can be in the shop for repair before they have to give you a new one or your money back.
This is a design flaw, plain and simple, and to say it's going to take 9-12 weeks to repair it is unacceptable, in my view, not when you have paid a lot of money for a luxury car.
You are a very reasonable guy!
06-26-2008, 06:02 PM
#37
Race Director
Thread Starter
I think that's pretty ridiculous ... they should either replace the car with a new one or give you the use of an equivalent convertible for the three months they expect to keep it off the road. You bought a convertible to be able to drive it with the top down, and it's summer, which is convertible season.
Imagine if you had leased the car, and your payment was $600 a month ... you would be out $1800 worth of use of the car due to a warranty issue. Suppose Porsche said, "Here, you can have your 996 back for three months until the new transmission comes in, but you can't use reverse."
I think I would be looking into the state's statute regarding lemon laws, because in Massachusetts, there are a certain number of days the car can be in the shop for repair before they have to give you a new one or your money back.
This is a design flaw, plain and simple, and to say it's going to take 9-12 weeks to repair it is unacceptable, in my view, not when you have paid a lot of money for a luxury car.
You are a very reasonable guy!
Imagine if you had leased the car, and your payment was $600 a month ... you would be out $1800 worth of use of the car due to a warranty issue. Suppose Porsche said, "Here, you can have your 996 back for three months until the new transmission comes in, but you can't use reverse."
I think I would be looking into the state's statute regarding lemon laws, because in Massachusetts, there are a certain number of days the car can be in the shop for repair before they have to give you a new one or your money back.
This is a design flaw, plain and simple, and to say it's going to take 9-12 weeks to repair it is unacceptable, in my view, not when you have paid a lot of money for a luxury car.
You are a very reasonable guy!
But your point is well taken, I'm sure they won't give me any grief when the time comes and I ask for a loaner.
07-10-2008, 09:47 AM
#38
Race Director
Thread Starter
I called our dealership's Service Advisor (SA) Tues. to let her know my wife would be back in town this Fri. morn. and we would be needing a loaner car for the w/e (she would be returning to Dallas crack o' dawn Mon.). At that time the SA informed me that the new replacement top was in and the techs were in the process of installing it. They had no idea how long it would take to replace since it was the first time one had been replaced in the field and they wanted to take their time and do it right. I agreed with her wholeheartedly. She said no mater what they would have a car available for us on Fri. morn., it MAY be her car or it may be a loaner car but we will have a vehicle.
Again, I'm very pleased with how BMW and BMW of Nashville have handled this issue so far.
Again, I'm very pleased with how BMW and BMW of Nashville have handled this issue so far.
07-10-2008, 09:31 PM
#40
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Glad to see, however, that you're being treated properly.
07-28-2008, 11:15 AM
#41
Race Director
Thread Starter
I thought I had updated this thread but obviously I hadn't.
The (1st) new top arrived about 3 weeks after the event, BMW had not shipped the required "jigs" to align the top but they didn't take too long to get in. The tech's took a couple of days to get the top on and aligned, apparently most of the body panels from behind the doors back have to come off to get this job done.
Now for the bad news, as would make sense to me, the top is shipped/installed folded (collapsed) as it would be stowed in the trunk. After the install with alignment (done with the jigs) is done only then is the top "closed" on the car. When they went to close the top they found that during shipping one of the pins had rubbed a fingernail size spot in the painted portion of one of the top sections! Apparently BMW didn't package this thing anticipating a overseas freight shipment.
To the dealership's credit, rather than trying to patch/paint and pass it off on us they contacted BMW Germany who then decided to build/ship another new top. I talked to the lead tech who showed me the car and the worn spot and explained why they couldn't have seen it before the top was installed (I understand completely). He was in remarkably good spirits considering all the work he had done knowing he was going to have to do it all over again, quite a friendly, courteous tech. He hadn't put all the interior panels back on but all the exterior body panels were back on and it looked fine in the 5 min. I looked at it.
I expect the 2nd top should be here in the next week or so if the timetable is the same as the one they met on the first top.
Had a 535xi loaner 2 weekends ago and a 335 coupe this weekend. Wife didn't like the wagon.
The (1st) new top arrived about 3 weeks after the event, BMW had not shipped the required "jigs" to align the top but they didn't take too long to get in. The tech's took a couple of days to get the top on and aligned, apparently most of the body panels from behind the doors back have to come off to get this job done.
Now for the bad news, as would make sense to me, the top is shipped/installed folded (collapsed) as it would be stowed in the trunk. After the install with alignment (done with the jigs) is done only then is the top "closed" on the car. When they went to close the top they found that during shipping one of the pins had rubbed a fingernail size spot in the painted portion of one of the top sections! Apparently BMW didn't package this thing anticipating a overseas freight shipment.
To the dealership's credit, rather than trying to patch/paint and pass it off on us they contacted BMW Germany who then decided to build/ship another new top. I talked to the lead tech who showed me the car and the worn spot and explained why they couldn't have seen it before the top was installed (I understand completely). He was in remarkably good spirits considering all the work he had done knowing he was going to have to do it all over again, quite a friendly, courteous tech. He hadn't put all the interior panels back on but all the exterior body panels were back on and it looked fine in the 5 min. I looked at it.
I expect the 2nd top should be here in the next week or so if the timetable is the same as the one they met on the first top.
Had a 535xi loaner 2 weekends ago and a 335 coupe this weekend. Wife didn't like the wagon.
07-29-2008, 03:08 PM
#42
Race Director
Thread Starter
Update: This is cursed....
Since my wife is back in Dallas I took the 335 loaner back to the dealer (they did NOT ask for it back, I just don't need it) today. When I dropped the keys off with our SA she gave me the bad news, FedEx delivered the 2nd replacement top and it was almost destroyed in shipment. She said it was so bad the rear window was even smashed. Fortunately she said the top was heavily insured (maybe I should get a cut for my troubles). Unfortunately, now they have to order a 3rd top for us.
I think I'm going to have a talk with the service manager to let them know if the 3rd time is not the charm I will be expecting the car to be replaced.
I think I'm going to have a talk with the service manager to let them know if the 3rd time is not the charm I will be expecting the car to be replaced.
07-29-2008, 08:24 PM
#43
Rennlist Member
You have been way, way, way more patient than I would be under the circumstances.
At this point BMW should cheerfully and swiftly replace your wife's car with a shiny new one without you having to ask...
At this point BMW should cheerfully and swiftly replace your wife's car with a shiny new one without you having to ask...
07-29-2008, 08:46 PM
#44
Given the story, I am not sure I would EVER want to have one of them off warranty. BMW is doing a great job trying to help you, but they failed to follow the KISS principle and are paying a dear price.
I'd ask them to give you a new M3..probably cheaper than 2 more tops and the 3 gone....
The minute I saw one of those tops on a friend's car, I immediately was concerned about the future.
No value on lease buyback cars for resale IMHO. At least to those that think about the cost of repairs in the equation.
BMW, I know you are reading this. I love your cars (even the self destructing ones like this one and some e46 m3's..). But give the guy a new car.
jb
I'd ask them to give you a new M3..probably cheaper than 2 more tops and the 3 gone....
The minute I saw one of those tops on a friend's car, I immediately was concerned about the future.
No value on lease buyback cars for resale IMHO. At least to those that think about the cost of repairs in the equation.
BMW, I know you are reading this. I love your cars (even the self destructing ones like this one and some e46 m3's..). But give the guy a new car.
jb
07-29-2008, 09:03 PM
#45
Race Car
I applaude your patience and agree if they can't get it right (even though the damaged tops weren't really their fault) a new car is a must. I also think BMW is handling this ordeal the best way they can, but there comes a time, and that time is now, that they have to wash their hands of this and step up for the customer. Good luck and keep us abreast of the resolution.
Mike