993cup vs RSR
06-17-2008, 01:02 AM
#16
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I guess my use of "probably" and "more like" really missed the mark. guess I should have taken a more careful KG- LBS conversion.
lol.
just checked and rechecked and it looks like the 993 cup's curb weight was 2600lbs. my bad. point being that just like the current 997, the cup car and the RSR are much different animals...the cup being closer to a road car than the RSR which is more like a prototype, or one of those 1970's chassis/ 993 carbon/fiberglass body PCA race cars...
06-17-2008, 09:24 AM
#18
M001 was the option code for the Cup cars, the were a slightly racier variant of the M002 993RS/CS which could actually be licenced for road use in some areas.
M001 used a different engine, w/ a unique air meter on a normal non-vram manifold
964 based bottom end
Black versions of Big Red front brakes
964RS based rear brakes rather than the larger RS rears.
I know far less about the RSRs
but they were tuned to a much higher level using ITBs and a unique manifold
These are as delievered from the factory
GT2 style wide body
would love to learn more, facts only Please!
06-17-2008, 09:40 AM
#19
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993 RSR had two engine options, a "stock" engine around 380 hp and a sprint engine which was 410hp. Slide valves in the sprint engine (not sure about the stock one). Sprint engnes were rebuilt after 40hrs.
993 Cup engines should last well over 100hrs.
Earlier RSR cars had different body work than the later EVO cars. but they all were widebody cars which was a measurement of the chassis not the body work.
993 Cup engines should last well over 100hrs.
Earlier RSR cars had different body work than the later EVO cars. but they all were widebody cars which was a measurement of the chassis not the body work.
06-17-2008, 10:24 AM
#21
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The price of parts on the 993 race cars are silly and make a 996 Cup look like a bargain. But the 996 Cup is a lot more demanding of the driver though.
A nicely prepped 993 street car turned racer is a more economical option and probably more fun and easier to learn on that a race car with 1500lb springs and slicks.
06-17-2008, 10:34 AM
#22
Drifting
I know a few guys that have gone down the 993 race car path. Persoanlly I think it's hard to beat the 964 platform from a perspective ease of maitainance, capability of cars, cost etc. I race with a guy with a guy has a 993 cup and a several 964 cups, I nver see his 993 at the track.
Phil
Phil
06-17-2008, 10:51 AM
#23
The short answer to your questions is that for DE use anything beyond a 993 Cup is overkill, and for a single man crew that has limited resources the 993 Cup is a no-brainer and very reliable.
The price of parts on the 993 race cars are silly and make a 996 Cup look like a bargain. But the 996 Cup is a lot more demanding of the driver though.
A nicely prepped 993 street car turned racer is a more economical option and probably more fun and easier to learn on that a race car with 1500lb springs and slicks.
The price of parts on the 993 race cars are silly and make a 996 Cup look like a bargain. But the 996 Cup is a lot more demanding of the driver though.
A nicely prepped 993 street car turned racer is a more economical option and probably more fun and easier to learn on that a race car with 1500lb springs and slicks.
993 < 993RS < 993RS/CS < 993Cup <993RSR
the cost of entry and maintainance also rises from L to R
A base 993 can be made into a very capable track car by emulating the RS/CS & Cup. But it will not retain it's value like a true version
JMO but each iteration from 911 to 964 to 993 to 996 to 997 has solved a particular issue w/ the previous version
in the change for 964RS to 993RS the issues where improvement takes place are
front up rights
brakes
rear suspension
exhaust
trans
06-17-2008, 12:23 PM
#25
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Link below to a restored supercup (w/RSR motor) for sale in Germany with some pics to add to the mix, though I wonder how accurate the restoration is. I know little about these but the rear deck badge is ??? on a Supercup...
http://www.freisinger-motorsport.de/...r_sale/39.html
06-17-2008, 07:09 PM
#27
Three Wheelin'
993 RSR's are actually called 993 Cup 3.8 RSR. They were cup cars with a 3.8 RSR motor in them. There were options to the car though. The options list was: 380mm front brakes, adjustable front stabilizer bar, flared fenders front and rear (which required larger front and rear wheels), Fuel cell. The following options were made standard. 8:32 ring and pinion, adjust front and rear shocks/springs. Unibal joints f&r, power steering, shorter drive shafts. From the factory the 993 RSCS, 993 Cup, and 993 RSR all have the same matter cage. I verified this in March at the RA club race when I looked at my RSR (see avatar and picture of engine in red car above) to my friends 993 RSCS. My car doesn't have the 380 brakes, so even the brakes are identical on the RSCS and the RSR.
The RSR is not a one man show. You need at very minimum 1 extra body to make it through a 3 day weekend, and that person better already know everything there is to know about the RSR. In a 993 Cup, you can show up at an event all by your lonesome and do just fine. My car has 290 hours on it and also was never pro raced which to me makes it special as it is so virgin. Others might think that racing history makes a car, either way all of these RSR's are cool cars. If anyone is at the club race this weekend at Barber please be sure to stop by and say hello.
I do agree with Greg Fishman though, always search before posting it helps keep the speed of Rennlist up!
The RSR is not a one man show. You need at very minimum 1 extra body to make it through a 3 day weekend, and that person better already know everything there is to know about the RSR. In a 993 Cup, you can show up at an event all by your lonesome and do just fine. My car has 290 hours on it and also was never pro raced which to me makes it special as it is so virgin. Others might think that racing history makes a car, either way all of these RSR's are cool cars. If anyone is at the club race this weekend at Barber please be sure to stop by and say hello.
I do agree with Greg Fishman though, always search before posting it helps keep the speed of Rennlist up!
06-17-2008, 08:44 PM
#28
993 RSR's are actually called 993 Cup 3.8 RSR. They were cup cars with a 3.8 RSR motor in them. There were options to the car though. The options list was: 380mm front brakes, adjustable front stabilizer bar, flared fenders front and rear (which required larger front and rear wheels), Fuel cell. The following options were made standard. 8:32 ring and pinion, adjust front and rear shocks/springs. Unibal joints f&r, power steering, shorter drive shafts. From the factory the 993 RSCS, 993 Cup, and 993 RSR all have the same matter cage. I verified this in March at the RA club race when I looked at my RSR (see avatar and picture of engine in red car above) to my friends 993 RSCS. My car doesn't have the 380 brakes, so even the brakes are identical on the RSCS and the RSR.
The RSR is not a one man show. You need at very minimum 1 extra body to make it through a 3 day weekend, and that person better already know everything there is to know about the RSR. In a 993 Cup, you can show up at an event all by your lonesome and do just fine. My car has 290 hours on it and also was never pro raced which to me makes it special as it is so virgin. Others might think that racing history makes a car, either way all of these RSR's are cool cars. If anyone is at the club race this weekend at Barber please be sure to stop by and say hello.
I do agree with Greg Fishman though, always search before posting it helps keep the speed of Rennlist up!
The RSR is not a one man show. You need at very minimum 1 extra body to make it through a 3 day weekend, and that person better already know everything there is to know about the RSR. In a 993 Cup, you can show up at an event all by your lonesome and do just fine. My car has 290 hours on it and also was never pro raced which to me makes it special as it is so virgin. Others might think that racing history makes a car, either way all of these RSR's are cool cars. If anyone is at the club race this weekend at Barber please be sure to stop by and say hello.
I do agree with Greg Fishman though, always search before posting it helps keep the speed of Rennlist up!
The optional brakes and cockpit adjustable sway bar , fender, flares and possibly wheels appear to be the same as those used on the 993 GT2 EVO
EVO brakes
abs5 w/ abd 4 channel
front
380x32 2 piece, al. hat
24mm Pagid RS9(old yellow) or grey(ceramic pads
air funnel w/ dist on the wheel; carrier
34/42 pistons
45tooth abs ring for 265/645-18 tires
10x18 ET32 BBS centerlock
24mm stabilizer bar
option 35mm cockpit adjustable sway bar
rear
322x28
18mm pads same compounds as fronts
28/28 pistons
no ghand brake
48tooth abs ring for 325/680-18 tires
11x18 ET14 BBS centerlock
20mm stabilizer
option 22mm stabilizer
dampers are adjustable for both bump & rebound w/ remote reservoirs
aluminum hood
plastic fenders and doors
side, door & rear window - Makralon
100l FT3 safty fuel tank
fire system Werner Permanent Fox 4kg for passenger compartment 4kg for engine compartment
quick release hood latches, pneumatic jacks
3 piecc GFR plastic under floor
oil filler in the rear quarter panel
Tagtronic 3.8 engine management
twin in line oil coolers
G50/54 6 speed trans
gear choices
1st 13/41 3.154 or 11/42 3.818 w/o synchroring
2nd 22/39 1.77 or 220/40 2.2 or 19/41 2.158 w/o synchroring
3rd 25/36 1.44 or 23/35 1.521 or 25/39 1.56 w/ steel synchro ring
4th 30/34 1.133 or 29/36 1.241 or 30/36 1.2 w/ steel synchro ring
5th 33/32 0.97 or 32/33 1.031 or 34/32 0.941 or 34/31 0.912 or 36/37 0.9721 w/ steel synchro ring
6th 35/29 0.829 or 35/31 0.886 or 35/30 0.857 or 36/28 0.775 or 40/30 0.750 w/ steel synchro ring
8:32 cwp
40/60, 60/40 or 80/80 lsd
4 point racing clutch
06-17-2008, 10:32 PM
#29
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There is a very sweet 993 Cup RSR in the upper peninsula of Michigan that looks exactly like a 993 Cup, except it has the large brakes. It has no flares, etc. The guy is a neurosurgeon and unless he has sold it he only races it a few times a year. Got a ride/drive at a DE in her years ago and it was a thing of beauty.
One of the last ones out of the factory and he was the first and only owner.
One of the last ones out of the factory and he was the first and only owner.
06-30-2008, 06:42 PM
#30
Three Wheelin'
To help show the difference between a 993 Cup and a 993 RSR, here is a link to my in car video from the Barber CR two weeks ago. I pass a 993 cup at the 5:10 mark and another one at the 7:35 mark. They were both driven by extremely talented drivers as well.
Enjoy: http://vimeo.com/1238357
Enjoy: http://vimeo.com/1238357