Concours Prep 1997 C4S
Rennlist Member
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 4,919
Likes: 7
From: Marietta, Ga
As one who is an advocate of the madness that is 'full concours' -- :-) -- I can see that you put a LOT of effort into cleaning and 'dressing' your car. Well done, she looks fabulous.
If you haven't already -- DO also clean and polish the *insides* of both exhaust tips. Yes, you heard me, the *insides*. Use a small dremmel or a brillo pad dipped in metal polish - or if they're really bad - several small squares of sandpaper to get the crapola off.
When you drive to the show, park and then begin the 'light dusting' -- do these few items to 'standardize' everything -- because, IMHO (and I have the results to prove it - they do work!):
1) Make sure both front seats are in the same position -- aligned with each other and with their seatbacks at the same 'angle'.
2) Make sure that the rear seatbelts are in the same (neat) position and there's no fingerprints on the metal latches. (those latches should be shining!)
3) Flip down the visors and double-check to make sure the vanity mirrors are spotless.
4) Wrap some duct-tape (sticky part to the outside!) around your wrist and 'roll' it around the carpeting so as to pick up all the lint that has 'crept in'.
5) Get out of the car and kneel down so that you can poke your head down where the foot pedals are. Make sure there's no bits of 'grit' in the rubber pedal grooves and that they are BLACK. Check this whole area for 'lint' as well.
I could go on ...but suffice to say, the devil is in the details, and those who look after the details are the ones NOT cursing like the devil when the prizes are being given out.
Good luck!
Gerry
If you haven't already -- DO also clean and polish the *insides* of both exhaust tips. Yes, you heard me, the *insides*. Use a small dremmel or a brillo pad dipped in metal polish - or if they're really bad - several small squares of sandpaper to get the crapola off.
When you drive to the show, park and then begin the 'light dusting' -- do these few items to 'standardize' everything -- because, IMHO (and I have the results to prove it - they do work!):
1) Make sure both front seats are in the same position -- aligned with each other and with their seatbacks at the same 'angle'.
2) Make sure that the rear seatbelts are in the same (neat) position and there's no fingerprints on the metal latches. (those latches should be shining!)
3) Flip down the visors and double-check to make sure the vanity mirrors are spotless.
4) Wrap some duct-tape (sticky part to the outside!) around your wrist and 'roll' it around the carpeting so as to pick up all the lint that has 'crept in'.
5) Get out of the car and kneel down so that you can poke your head down where the foot pedals are. Make sure there's no bits of 'grit' in the rubber pedal grooves and that they are BLACK. Check this whole area for 'lint' as well.
I could go on ...but suffice to say, the devil is in the details, and those who look after the details are the ones NOT cursing like the devil when the prizes are being given out.
Good luck!
Gerry
Thread Starter
Nordschleife Master
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 5,471
Likes: 209
From: Tacoma, WA
Let me preface, I am a Concours Judge, I have competed in many local & national Concoures, & have many trophies. I was on a team that did a car for Pebble Beach & placed 2nd in class. Just last summer I took 1st place with my Audi S4, @ Waterwagens. There are around a couple of dozen shows that I have done, with various cars.
Well, I didn't even place, funny part was my car was much cleaner then the cars that won. How did that happen? Well there were 13 cars in my class. They had 3 sets of 5 judges do them. So I had the real judges, and got a score of 212 out of 235. The winning cars had a score of 234.5, 234 & 233.5. yup, they lose nothing. Funny part was, 2 of them, literarily, just washed their cars & showed up!!
All 3 winners were from the same judging team. They didn't even have their wheels dressed, or wheel wells clean, or trim done. 
I was a little miffed, & really kind of pissed off. I lost points for dirt in my rims, that could not be found, but the 3rd place car had dirty rims that you can see 12ft away. If I made a stink, people would think I am just a sore looser. This may be my last PCA Concours. It's a slap in the face.
Plane flight & it can be arranged. But you might not like the price.
She is all factory, sans the Rennline peddles. Yes, many C4S's came this way stock.
I did most of that, didn't do the seats, but I did clean the tips inside & out, plus didn't put the floor mats down until I got there.
Maybe, not sure, I did just get the full front end done in Ventureshield, so no more rock chips for me!!!
I have had this car for 8 months & done 6000mi on it, so it's getting driven. However, I really like my pride & joy to be clean & present well. There is nothing worse then a nice car that isn't taken care of!!!
Adams Car wash, with a "foam cannon" it's a attachment for a pressure washer.
Well, I didn't even place, funny part was my car was much cleaner then the cars that won. How did that happen? Well there were 13 cars in my class. They had 3 sets of 5 judges do them. So I had the real judges, and got a score of 212 out of 235. The winning cars had a score of 234.5, 234 & 233.5. yup, they lose nothing. Funny part was, 2 of them, literarily, just washed their cars & showed up!!
All 3 winners were from the same judging team. They didn't even have their wheels dressed, or wheel wells clean, or trim done. I was a little miffed, & really kind of pissed off. I lost points for dirt in my rims, that could not be found, but the 3rd place car had dirty rims that you can see 12ft away. If I made a stink, people would think I am just a sore looser. This may be my last PCA Concours. It's a slap in the face.
As one who is an advocate of the madness that is 'full concours' -- :-) -- I can see that you put a LOT of effort into cleaning and 'dressing' your car. Well done, she looks fabulous.
If you haven't already -- DO also clean and polish the *insides* of both exhaust tips. Yes, you heard me, the *insides*. Use a small dremmel or a brillo pad dipped in metal polish - or if they're really bad - several small squares of sandpaper to get the crapola off.
When you drive to the show, park and then begin the 'light dusting' -- do these few items to 'standardize' everything -- because, IMHO (and I have the results to prove it - they do work!):
1) Make sure both front seats are in the same position -- aligned with each other and with their seatbacks at the same 'angle'.
2) Make sure that the rear seatbelts are in the same (neat) position and there's no fingerprints on the metal latches. (those latches should be shining!)
3) Flip down the visors and double-check to make sure the vanity mirrors are spotless.
4) Wrap some duct-tape (sticky part to the outside!) around your wrist and 'roll' it around the carpeting so as to pick up all the lint that has 'crept in'.
5) Get out of the car and kneel down so that you can poke your head down where the foot pedals are. Make sure there's no bits of 'grit' in the rubber pedal grooves and that they are BLACK. Check this whole area for 'lint' as well.
I could go on ...but suffice to say, the devil is in the details, and those who look after the details are the ones NOT cursing like the devil when the prizes are being given out.
Good luck!
Gerry
If you haven't already -- DO also clean and polish the *insides* of both exhaust tips. Yes, you heard me, the *insides*. Use a small dremmel or a brillo pad dipped in metal polish - or if they're really bad - several small squares of sandpaper to get the crapola off.
When you drive to the show, park and then begin the 'light dusting' -- do these few items to 'standardize' everything -- because, IMHO (and I have the results to prove it - they do work!):
1) Make sure both front seats are in the same position -- aligned with each other and with their seatbacks at the same 'angle'.
2) Make sure that the rear seatbelts are in the same (neat) position and there's no fingerprints on the metal latches. (those latches should be shining!)
3) Flip down the visors and double-check to make sure the vanity mirrors are spotless.
4) Wrap some duct-tape (sticky part to the outside!) around your wrist and 'roll' it around the carpeting so as to pick up all the lint that has 'crept in'.
5) Get out of the car and kneel down so that you can poke your head down where the foot pedals are. Make sure there's no bits of 'grit' in the rubber pedal grooves and that they are BLACK. Check this whole area for 'lint' as well.
I could go on ...but suffice to say, the devil is in the details, and those who look after the details are the ones NOT cursing like the devil when the prizes are being given out.
Good luck!
Gerry
Adams Car wash, with a "foam cannon" it's a attachment for a pressure washer.
Burning Brakes
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 1,073
Likes: 6
From: San Diego, CA
Car looks great. That sucks about the judges being screwed up. I kinda know how you feel. About 5 years ago I went crazy cleaning my BMW for about 3 days (pre-kids) in preparation of our local BMWCCA clean car contest and didn't even place. I was in the "clean" class, the most basic level. Whatever, now I just do a nice detail and "display" my car. Seems like there is a certain amount of politics involved sometimes.
Rennlist Member
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 2,923
Likes: 231
From: NJ
Hey Stealth - sorry to hear about the judging. Sounds pretty f'd up. Tell me - did you change the emblem on the back of your car? Your avatar shows one position which I always took as the correct one - and the pics show another.
Addict
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 16,015
Likes: 815
From: Temecula, CA
Nice job!
Believe it or not all of this is necessary if you want to place and or win. It is also very rewarding to have a car that you know looks as close to what it did when it left the factory and what you dreamed about as a kid. Concours is also about mechanical condition so yes, most of us nuts will tend to treat mechanicals with the same level of detail as the cosmetics.
Judges can definitely make all the difference. I've judged events and I've been judged and I've watched other judges and it really amazes me how everyone looks at things different. The best way to set up an event is not to have different judges for the same class, they should all judge each car and suck it up. Each car should have a time limit as well to insure that you don't rush through the last few cars and miss something.
If that doesn't happen then all bets are off IMHO.
Good luck this year, looks like your ready!
Oh and that is an absolutely stunning car and if you decide to sell in the next 5 - 6 years let me know.
Believe it or not all of this is necessary if you want to place and or win. It is also very rewarding to have a car that you know looks as close to what it did when it left the factory and what you dreamed about as a kid. Concours is also about mechanical condition so yes, most of us nuts will tend to treat mechanicals with the same level of detail as the cosmetics.
Judges can definitely make all the difference. I've judged events and I've been judged and I've watched other judges and it really amazes me how everyone looks at things different. The best way to set up an event is not to have different judges for the same class, they should all judge each car and suck it up. Each car should have a time limit as well to insure that you don't rush through the last few cars and miss something.
If that doesn't happen then all bets are off IMHO.
Good luck this year, looks like your ready!
Oh and that is an absolutely stunning car and if you decide to sell in the next 5 - 6 years let me know.
Three Wheelin'
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 1,305
Likes: 3
From: Long Island, NY
Friggin' crapola.
No question about it -- there was something totally messed up with the judging. That totally sux!
You and I, both, have been to shows and have won prizes -- so we know the 'level of effort required' and what a car *worthy* of a placing actually looks like. Prize-cars "leap out at you". From what you describe there was definte bias. Screw them, enjoy your car in the pristine condition that it is - and enjoy the stares of the onlookers as you cruise the streets.
FWIW, you are not alone. Last year -- mid-summer -- I did my usual FULL-CONCOURS-PREP and the car was friggin' perfect. (Having won many firsts I *know* what it takes to 'place' - so trust me when I say the car was friggin' perfect.) We drove to a 'show' in another state - close-by. (I won't mention which one - to protect the innocent). After 'light dusting' I popped the hood, opened the driver's door and popped the trunk - so that ALL 'aspects' could be viewed by spectators and judges alike. (I might mention that my car was the only one 'out of state' in the whole show. (Aw-Oh!)
The cars that 'won' were all from THAT state and -- lemme tell you -- they looked like they had just, that morning, gone thru' the local Pepboyz car wash. Some even had DENTS in their door panels and rust bubbling/flakes by their windshields. Filthy wheels - YES!, Thumb-prints on rear-view-mirrors - YES! (I could go on!)
The wife was furious -- I was disappointed but I wasn't too surprised - after all I was NOT from THAT state. Needless to say, however, I won't be wasting any effort or time going to THAT show ever again.
It does leave a bad taste in your mouth, dats fer sure, but we (wifey and I) just hit 'nearest places of interest' on the Garmin (296) - and spent the rest of the day checking out the local sights and taking pix -- and, yes, enjoying the stares of the other drivers.
Gerry
No question about it -- there was something totally messed up with the judging. That totally sux!
You and I, both, have been to shows and have won prizes -- so we know the 'level of effort required' and what a car *worthy* of a placing actually looks like. Prize-cars "leap out at you". From what you describe there was definte bias. Screw them, enjoy your car in the pristine condition that it is - and enjoy the stares of the onlookers as you cruise the streets.
FWIW, you are not alone. Last year -- mid-summer -- I did my usual FULL-CONCOURS-PREP and the car was friggin' perfect. (Having won many firsts I *know* what it takes to 'place' - so trust me when I say the car was friggin' perfect.) We drove to a 'show' in another state - close-by. (I won't mention which one - to protect the innocent). After 'light dusting' I popped the hood, opened the driver's door and popped the trunk - so that ALL 'aspects' could be viewed by spectators and judges alike. (I might mention that my car was the only one 'out of state' in the whole show. (Aw-Oh!)
The cars that 'won' were all from THAT state and -- lemme tell you -- they looked like they had just, that morning, gone thru' the local Pepboyz car wash. Some even had DENTS in their door panels and rust bubbling/flakes by their windshields. Filthy wheels - YES!, Thumb-prints on rear-view-mirrors - YES! (I could go on!)
The wife was furious -- I was disappointed but I wasn't too surprised - after all I was NOT from THAT state. Needless to say, however, I won't be wasting any effort or time going to THAT show ever again.
It does leave a bad taste in your mouth, dats fer sure, but we (wifey and I) just hit 'nearest places of interest' on the Garmin (296) - and spent the rest of the day checking out the local sights and taking pix -- and, yes, enjoying the stares of the other drivers.
Gerry
Racer
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 394
Likes: 2
From: Auburn, CA
I got involved in PCA Concours in 2006, both as a judge and a participant. It did not take long to figure out that judging conflicts of interest were standard occurances at most events. They had no problem judging each others' cars and "scratching each others' backs" in the grading, if you know what I mean. I ended up winning the 2006 wash and shine category for my zone.
I got involved to have fun preparing my car for concours competion and to meet more Porsche enthusiasts. I met a lot of very nice people, however, the concours competitions were kind of a joke.
No more concours for me! I'm going to drive my car!
Phil
I got involved to have fun preparing my car for concours competion and to meet more Porsche enthusiasts. I met a lot of very nice people, however, the concours competitions were kind of a joke.
No more concours for me! I'm going to drive my car!
Phil
Addict
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 16,015
Likes: 815
From: Temecula, CA
I got involved in PCA Concours in 2006, both as a judge and a participant. It did not take long to figure out that judging conflicts of interest were standard occurances at most events. They had no problem judging each others' cars and "scratching each others' backs" in the grading, if you know what I mean. I ended up winning the 2006 wash and shine category for my zone.
I got involved to have fun preparing my car for concours competion and to meet more Porsche enthusiasts. I met a lot of very nice people, however, the concours competitions were kind of a joke.
No more concours for me! I'm going to drive my car!
Phil
I got involved to have fun preparing my car for concours competion and to meet more Porsche enthusiasts. I met a lot of very nice people, however, the concours competitions were kind of a joke.
No more concours for me! I'm going to drive my car!
Phil
Three Wheelin'
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 1,926
Likes: 5
From: Seattle xburb - I can't see the Emerald City, but I know it's out there somewhere
Beautiful car! But I'm confused, who is doing the detailing here: the car owner, or the detailer? Or is the car owner a detailer???
Another concours question: don't you get points off for mods that were not factory options, or options that were not originally on your car?
Another concours question: don't you get points off for mods that were not factory options, or options that were not originally on your car?
Addict
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 16,015
Likes: 815
From: Temecula, CA
There are several classes in PCA Concours but only one is looking for originality and that is PCA Preservation Class. The car's paint and interior needs to be 75% original to the car from the factory and all items must be original to the car such as stereo etc.
