Mark in Baltimore

Dave, I think you're right that smaller bars are needed in cars with stiffer springs. Chris Walrod or Steve Weiner would be great people to chime in here, but it's my understanding that having too big of a bar can mitigate the advantages of our fancy independent suspensions since the left and right wheels are no longer as independent with the bigger bars, a situation that can be detrimental to the car's ability to adhere to the road.

When I had the PSS-9's, one of the reasons I went with the TRG bars is because my RS bars seemed too small, a perception that I will freely admit may have been due to my relative inexperience with track 911's.

DaveM993

I let you know when this track season gets underway. The only thing I changed this year was moving up from stock sways to H&R. So with everything else being equal the difference should be noticable.

We shall see.

DaveM993

I am wondering what the loss of the roll 'input' is going to feel like....as I slide off the track completely level

jungleboy

Bill Verburg

roll is ok as long as you have camber to take advantage of it.

TheOtherEric

Yup you have the right idea. With the car rolling due to softer sways, things happen a bit slower, if that makes sense. With stiffer sways, you really need to be in touch with your car and tires else you can get bitten. Just takes a while to get to that point.

Bull

If your car is set up properly, you will be fine. Just relearn the new limits slowly. I like a car with a touch of over steer, while many others don't.

Most are running light to medium springs on these very heavy cars. To me, given the weight of the stock cars, heavy springs are 1000/1300, as in Cup Cars.

DaveM993

My first event with the new bars will be the Glen. The roll (weight) transition I would feel through the esses with the stock sways was both very noticable and at times a little disconcerting. However I will be taking it very easy to start this year as I don't want a date with some armco.

Gbag

Well, although the input has been fascinating, it still seems that only 2 or 3 people in the world own these H&R bars.

I'm waiting anxiously for Dave's trial run! If anyone out there has been running these monsters on the street send me a PM or speak up. I'm now more curious than ever...!

G

DaveM993

Well, I decided to get in a track day last Friday to shake the car down before Watkins Glen. My home track is Beaverun and we had a BEE-U-TEE-FUL day for some laps. 78 deg. and sunny. I am running Hoosier R6's with about 7 track days on them. I also should prefice this by saying I have only ever driven my 993 on the track..no other car. Also, almost all of my track experience is with my car in its pre-H&R set-up. I have about 25 track days...I am still coming up the learning curve...so my observations are far from a well seasoned driver that can tell when "the right front tire pressure is a 1/4 lb low..."

So what are my first impressions of the H&R sways?....overall very good!!!

Frankly the car's handling was not alot different. But I did notice a few things....good and bad.

Good -
1. the car is still drivable on the street
2. the car turns in MUCH more sharply now. Frankly, it amazed me, to be honest. There was NO understeer...I kept trying a little harder each time and each time the front end just went were I pointed it.
3. the lack of roll made the car much more "stable". I did not miss the "input" at all!

Bad -
1. Oversteer...it is mildly worse than what I had pre- H&R. Its the one thing I had to control a little. HOWEVER, once I started to adapt I could use it to rotate the car much quicker. The only negative is I have the front bar on the stiff setting and the rear on the looser setting so I do not have the ability to dial out the understeer other than with tire pressure, damper settings or camber. But I am not going to mess with it until I see if I can get use to it. It is not bad at all...just more than I was use to.

BUT OVERALL I am happy ...we will see how Watkins Glen goes. Beaverun is a small track with alot of tight corners. The one thing I was ecstatic about was I find I am now on the power MUCH quicker in Turn 7 (the blind, downhill, off camber right hander...for those that know). The car was much more predictable and once it set...I could put my foot to the floor and it was solid.

Perhaps the best indicator though were two observations...

1) I run in the advanced group at our local track's "track days". I had the fastest car..I think? The group included a 997 GT3, 997 S, RS America, a couple of BMW "race cars".

2) I had a couple of people come over and ask what I did to the engine over the winter...I said "nothing"...and then see their eyes open a little.

So - overall...I am a happy camper. Time will tell.

herman maire

WOW.... I think you just sold me. Did you have understeer with the original set up?

Thanks

DaveM993

Yes...a little...this was a little more pronounced...I guess it is not the understeer that is the issue...its that the bars cannot be adjusted any further to reduce it if I want to.

Honestly, given my experience level (or lack thereof)...the best observation is - I had a GREAT day with the car. It felt tighter and DEFINITELY faster out of the corners. I don't run alot of negative camber (-1.5) so the reduction of body roll was a definite advantage to getting more out of the tires.

jungleboy

Dave,
Any further feedback from your subsequent track days?? Hopefully you've had a few more good times... Any impressions from Watkins Glen? Thanks...