Gbag

As the Euro climbs higher and higher along with the cost of the RS parts (ie. sway bars) I thought I would ask for some actual opinions to those who might have the "uber-sized" H&R Sways on their cars. 26mm front / 24mm rear is big, no doubt. Some may argue to big! I agree they are certainly huge compared to the other offerings.

I will be mating them to some Pss10's.

What I am looking for is actual impressions for:

Street use/ day to day
Track/ car setup and performance
Fit/ How does the rear setup compare to the RS? Photos?

I've done the searches and there is not much specific information or longer term feedback on how these are handling. Any input would be appreciated.

Thanks- Geoff

Black993

very interested in this as well. Any info would be great

Mark in Baltimore

PM "Sam N". He races a G class 993 with me in PCA and has the H&R's. FWIW, I think those bars are too much bar for the car. The TRG bars, which I have, are a better pick if the RS parts are too dear. If I had to do it over again, I would have kept my RS sways and upped the spring rates of my Motons. Regardless, my car's set up is well-dialed in and not worth monkeying with.

Bill Verburg

The other issue w/ bigger bars is the 9" vacuum can used on cars w/ vacuum boosted brakes.

The TRG and RS bars are tight enough, I't will be tougher to fit the 26mm bars in front

TheOtherEric

+1 on Mark's comments. TRG are 25.4/22, so H&R are bigger. Many of us believe TRG are already too big, but yeah they do work fine on the track.

Greg H.

I don't get this comment. Aren't H&R sways made in Europe, just like the RS bars? FWIW, I wish my TRG bars were mounted with rubber. I think they are a bit harsh for even 50% street use. Especially if you go over a pot hole.

Greg H.

DaveM993

Have H&R...no issue on the street. I have not tracked yet. Given the lower spring rate of the PSS9s, the bigger bar will take out most of the car roll for me. No fitment issues, am using the stock droplinks. If I had 700+ lb springs it would be a different story I am sure. Would only need the sways to fine tune, but in my case I am looking at them doing a good chunk of the work keeping the car flat.

I have talked to others that have used the H&R bars and like them.

I will report back in May when I have a go at Watkins Glen...we shall see. If they are crap, I will be the first one to say so.

Bull

On my 993, I used the H&R 26/24 bars with the JIC Cross suspension that had 600/800lb springs. I really liked that combination, and the guy who bought it from me is equally happy (and winning TTs in Cal.). There was no clearance problem with the front bar.

Gbag

Greg,

Yeah, they are made in Europe as well, but for some reason there must be some inventory as the cost is fairly low and they can be had inexpensively. I've heard the build quality and fit to be rumored "good", so it's an option. The size worries me as others have mentioned.

Probably sweet on the autobahn doing 140mph swift lane changes.....

Mark in Baltimore

IIRC, a properly set up car is supposed to have the lightest bars possible. I have not empirically tested different size bars under the same track conditions to assess back-to-back differences and have no direct experience with that maxim. However, my rear TRG bar is set for the softest point possible, meaning I've run out of adjustment if I want my rear to be less stiff.

Akerlie

How do the ROW sway bars compared to the US bars ? (IIRC they 2mm thicker front and rear ? would one feel the difference ?)

Mark in Baltimore

-H&R sways 26mm front/24mm rear (adjustable)
-TRG sways 24/22 (adjustable)

US:
- Carrera: 20/17
- Carrera M030: 22/20
- Carrera S/4S: 20/17
- Carrera S/4S M030: 22/18
- Turbo: 22/19

ROW:
- Carrera: 21/18
- Carrera M030: 22/20
- Carrera S/4S: 20/18
- Carrera S/4S M030: 22/20
- Turbo: 22/21
- RS: 23/20 (adjustable)

Akerlie

Thank you Mark,

So what is the experience on upgrading from standard US 20/17 sways to M030 22/20 ?

Also i guess that for a RS one would not need as thick sways as on a heavier car.
Therefore the H&R ond TRG sways would make a non RS car as "stiff" as an RS ?

Sorry about stealing the thread

DaveM993

Mark, you have probably forgotten more than I know...so I tread lightly here, but I have always understood that statement to be true in the case of big springs only. My understanding is the primary objective of springs and and sway bars is to "stiffen" the car -and- prevent body roll. When large springs are used they alone can prevent the body roll, in which case you don't need alot of bar and yes - you use as light as possible to fine tune the suspension. But when we are talking PSS9 or 10s, they hardly have 'enough' spring to stop the body roll, thus it takes a larger sway bar.

The question is, what is the requirement or advantage of using a small bar to match light springs on a track? And what does a bigger sway do in that case? Asked another way - What is the disadvantage or characteristic of an "over barred" car? (which is a term I have heard...)

EDIT: and I am only talking track use here, not everyday driving.

TheOtherEric

Not sure I completely agree. These are just 2 competing philosophies -- light bars with heavy springs (like Lotus Elise which has no rear sway bar!) versus heavy bars and light springs (like many p-cars). I generally agree with Mark in leaning toward lighter bars but I don't think it's *necessarily* better.

To answer Dave's question:
The advantage of heavy bars & light springs is that they preserve your alignment settings better while cornering (since you're cornering flat). Soft springs are nice to keep wheels on the ground, like on bumpy tracks.

The advantage of light bars & heavy springs is that it preserves the independent suspension, so that a bump on one side is less jarring. And you get less weight transfer side-to-side when cornering with lighter bars. And on smooth tracks heavy springs is the way to go. Plus heavy springs prevent dive during braking. And lighter bars allows the car to roll more in corners, which gives the driver much more feel and is funner IMHO.

Ok, that's the treatise on sway bars.