AX993

FLY993, I went to your posted link to Redline Oil and was very disappointed to see that all their gasoline engine oils were SM rated . Only their diesel (only) oil was a SL rated oil .
No matter, I'm going with what Steve and Charles recommend as soon as I can.
Glenn

jungleboy

Excuse my ignorance folks. Been following this thread. Swepco & BPenn seem to be the recommended way to go and LNEngineering is a one stop shop for both. I've been using M1 all these years... it is obviously synthetic... Neither Swepco nor BPenn are synthetic correct? Any issues with switching from synthetic to regular petroleum based oil at all? Also, I've been brainwashed into thinking that synthetic is the best for these engines... less breakdown with higher temps/less contaminants etc... is that not true?

FLYT993

From lnenginneering...

"Please note that you cannot use just Zn and P levels as an absolute indicator of an oil's performance. Our field testing (results shown below) proved that Brad Penn, even though lower on Zn and P than some other oils, had the best wear performance because of how the rest of it's additive package, such as detergents, are formulated."

Redline's viscosity index and HTHS values are exceptional....although I will probably try the ELF or Royal Purple brands for my next change

FLYT993

Charles, what do you think of the Joe Gibbs oils?

Peter R.

Dealers (ANY brand) overhere don't give a rat's *ss about your car. They just want the contents of your wallet. Since the introduction of electronic bus systems in cars, people that know about cars have been pushed out in favor of folk that know how to operate a diagnostic computer, but couldn't identify a camshaft from their elbow if their life depended on it.

If Mobil issues a -10 W 52.6 tomorrow they'll say you need to use that. Because if you blow up your engine it's always 'never happened before', 'faulty driving skills', 'bad fuel' and 'generally never their fault'



Peter R.

Charles Navarro

The Joe Gibbs oils are great stuff for race cars, having TONS of Zn and P and little if any detergents. I just wouldn't use them on the street since they are meant to be changed very often (i.e. every event).

Yes, Redline has very high HTHS viscosities too and from what I can tell, also performs very well. My personal bias against it is that every car I have ever put it into, it increased oil comsumption (and leaks).

I have personally never used any Elf products, but have used many Motul products very happily and my new VWs seem to like Motul oils very well, reporting back excellent VOAs.

Before Brad Penn and Swepco, our good old standby oil was Royal Purple Max Cycle 20w50 - in physical teardowns of very high output aircooled engines, they always looked great and didn't have wear issues. The one shop that does oil testing with me still uses it, in addition to Brad Penn, and now Swepco, after seeing how well it performed in the HP testing and knowing it also is great for wear.

Regarding Redline's packaging and the SM labeling, here again is another problem I see in the industry. Labeling these oils with such a classification doesn't always mean the oil complies with the API standard nor that it is even required to. From what the technical staff at redline told me, their oils still have ~1450 ppm Zn and P (at least the 5w40, 10w40, and 20w50 for which I asked about), even though the labeling says SM. IMHO, they should correct their published materials and packaging as this is very confusing. Also, just like we have ok'ed the use of Mobil 1 motorcycle oils for engines sans catalytic converters, there's no reason why you couldn't use Redline's motorcycle oils if you are partial to the Redline brand. Just don't use their racing oils on the street, as they are basically non-detergent, just like the Joe Gibbs stuff. Leave the true non-detergent race oils to the race cars.

There is no issue switching from a synthetic to a non-synthetic.

If you absolutely want to keep using a synthetic, like previously discussed, there are options like the Royal Purple Max Cycle, Redline, Motul 300v, Elf Competition, and even the Mobil 1 V-Twin (or MX4T, both of which I also sell) oils, all of which should be good choices. Just know, there is years of evidence showing that the Brad Penn and Swepco are satisfactory lubricants and that you aren't giving anything up by using them.

Did I miss anything?

Flying Finn

This actuallty is my second time I use Redline, on my previous oil change was first (this from Mobil 1 due to this "oil confusion").
I now have the racing oil but since I also drive on the street, now I'm getting their street oil (racing oil doesn't clean as well).
Went with the 40 weight because of advice from PCA racer who has analyzed his oil (many times) between 50 & 40 weight and the results were quite a lot better when he used the 40 weight oil.

Avenger6

ARGH! This is going to get real expensive for me.... See, I can get Mobil 1 at U.S. prices in the PX, no problem. Except now it is no good.......

I can get the ELF and other fancy Euro oils at local stores, but must pay Euro prices, which (for SOME reason which I can't figure out) are 25E and upwards, PER LITER! Mobil 1 is 32E per liter at the local "Checker Auto" equivalent. At current rates, that is about $40!!!! PER BOTTLE! So, what is that, about $450 or so for JUST THE OIL for each oil change.

Nobody in the US can send me oil such as SWEPCO, even through the APO, because it is "flammable."

I'll research this further when I get back out of the sandbox next month, but this is going to HURT.....

fb47243

Thanks for the info Charles! I have been using ASG Camguard in my aircraft engines and was curious as to whether there would be any benefit to adding it to the P-car oil. (Currently using Mobil 1)

Thanks

Mark in Baltimore

Charles and Mr. Weiner, as a data point for the board and for future searches, how do you feel about Mobil 1's 20W-50 V Twin motorcycle oil? I've been using the 10W-40 "Racing 4T" (SH/CF rating) version in my Sequoia and Miatas. It looks like the V Twin did well in the LN tests, so I'm curious as to why no one is using it.

http://eliteetc.com/momooil.html

Van1

Avenger, the crappy little NEX here at NSA Souda Bay carries Mobil 1 20w-50 V-Twin oil at US prices. If they can get it here of all places, you might be able to get it at your PX. Check with your PX manager and see if they can get you some in there. Probably all comes from the same warehouse anyway.

Charles Navarro

Mark, I have recommended (and sold) the Mobil 1 V-Twin (and MX4t or 4T) oils now for quite some time, just like the Royal Purple Max Cycle, Amsoil Harley, and other motorcycle oils. They are very, very robust, but do have some down sides. They aren't nearly as detergent as the Brad Penn or Swepco, so they need to be changed more often, and at the super high levels of Zn and P used, those motorcycle oils probably will kill a catalytic converter in a hurry.

I don't think using the av engine product camguard will hurt anything, but I would pose that question to the manufacturer, as av engine oils are a very different beast than our engine oils with very different requirements.

As far as exporting Brad Penn and Swepco, I do so all the time via the US Postal service. The Brad Penn is clearly labeled as non-hazardous right on the box, so it does make shipping it a bit easier.

Mark in Baltimore

Charles, thanks for the speedy response!

RallyJon

As someone who has had the "indisputable superiority" of synthetic over dino drummed into my brain over the years, can you provide some more info on this?

I thought that top quality synthetics were better at 1) cold start performance, 2) holding together during heat extremes, and 3) holding together for long drain intervals. Can Brad Penn and/or Swepco really compare with an uber-synthetic like Motul 300V in these areas?

To put another way, suitable for a California weekend car, or also for a 4-seasons daily driver that will see 10 degree cold starts, the possibility of 270 degrees in August traffic, and 6000 miles drain intervals? I know a good synthetic can handle that with ease.

Mark in Baltimore

Charles,

I just skimmed through your oil page and, under the motorcycle oil FAQ, I don't see an admonition of using motorcycle oils, although one can obviously infer the increased risk of cat damage with higher zinc and phosphorus levels. I think it might be a good idea to hammer home to users that motorcycle oils and cats are a bad combo.

Back to square one . . .


Why use a motorcycle oil?

Motorcycle oils have higher levels of phosphorus/zinc for enhanced wear protection and the same high-temperature detergent technology for superior wear protection and engine cleanliness, even at elevated oil temperatures. Specifically motorcycle oils for aircooled engines are designed for very high localized oil temperatures and high overall oil temperatures, and typically have high flash points coupled with higher HTHS viscosities and lower noack% losses. As a whole, it would appear that all most motorcycle oils we tested have excellent anti-wear additive levels and most are not SM oils, but rather earlier SG, SH, or SJ rated. In a pinch, it should be fairly easy to find a motorcycle oil with any of these SG, SH, or SJ ratings at your local auto parts store when it may be more difficult to get Brad Penn or Swepco, without having it shipped to you.


http://www.lnengineering.com/oil.html