ANYTHING NEW ON THE MOBIL 1 FRONT?
02-14-2008, 05:20 PM
#211
Cliff's Notes? I'll give it a try...
This whole topic has jumped the shark, and what started as some very constructive ideas for fixing a very real problem has evolved into a crazy bandwagon of 993 owners scratching their heads at where they'll find pure unrefined organic extra-virgin straight 60-weight (a preview of next week's recommendations) which is the only proper oil to keep your engine alive.
This whole topic has jumped the shark, and what started as some very constructive ideas for fixing a very real problem has evolved into a crazy bandwagon of 993 owners scratching their heads at where they'll find pure unrefined organic extra-virgin straight 60-weight (a preview of next week's recommendations) which is the only proper oil to keep your engine alive.
Can't bring myself to go with the Dino, so I'm sticking with blending the Redline 15W50/5W40, and then I'll try the Elf (now TOTAL) 10W50 Porsche Motorsport uses.
02-14-2008, 05:30 PM
#212
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Right in the Owners Manual of my Porsche, the Factory clearly stated that the recommended oil is straight 30W Dino oil. Why mess with the Factory wisdom???? The car runs great and my wife loves it....one of the nicest '61 Roadsters around!
02-14-2008, 06:50 PM
#213
02-14-2008, 10:17 PM
#214
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Cliff's Notes? I'll give it a try...
It started off months ago with some anecdotal data that modern fuel efficient and emissions friendly oil formulations were missing some key ingredients that are important to our engines. Easy solution: use a high grade non-SM oil that has at least 1100 ppm of P and Zn and don't worry about it. Or use a bit of additives to pump up the 20 gal of SM oil you just bought until it's gone. All very sensible stuff.
Then things began to get weird.
Diesel synthetic oils begat motorcycle synthetic oils begat the first discussion of non-synthetic oil ever seen for a post '89 911. Simultaneously, oil weights were up, too. The old 0W40 became 5W40 became 15W40 became 20W50. For track use and sustained Autobahn speeds, right? No, for going to the supermarket for groceries, too.
And it turns out that the heavy sludge makes more power, even! (Who woulda thunk?) Not just that, but even in cold climates, we need to use heavy weight oil now, because--get this--the gaps between the cold bearings are now too vast for normal oil weights. Why, some oil is so thin it can drain right out between the aluminum atoms in your case, then you'll have no oil at all.
This whole topic has jumped the shark, and what started as some very constructive ideas for fixing a very real problem has evolved into a crazy bandwagon of 993 owners scratching their heads at where they'll find pure unrefined organic extra-virgin straight 60-weight (a preview of next week's recommendations) which is the only proper oil to keep your engine alive.
It started off months ago with some anecdotal data that modern fuel efficient and emissions friendly oil formulations were missing some key ingredients that are important to our engines. Easy solution: use a high grade non-SM oil that has at least 1100 ppm of P and Zn and don't worry about it. Or use a bit of additives to pump up the 20 gal of SM oil you just bought until it's gone. All very sensible stuff.
Then things began to get weird.
Diesel synthetic oils begat motorcycle synthetic oils begat the first discussion of non-synthetic oil ever seen for a post '89 911. Simultaneously, oil weights were up, too. The old 0W40 became 5W40 became 15W40 became 20W50. For track use and sustained Autobahn speeds, right? No, for going to the supermarket for groceries, too.
And it turns out that the heavy sludge makes more power, even! (Who woulda thunk?) Not just that, but even in cold climates, we need to use heavy weight oil now, because--get this--the gaps between the cold bearings are now too vast for normal oil weights. Why, some oil is so thin it can drain right out between the aluminum atoms in your case, then you'll have no oil at all.
This whole topic has jumped the shark, and what started as some very constructive ideas for fixing a very real problem has evolved into a crazy bandwagon of 993 owners scratching their heads at where they'll find pure unrefined organic extra-virgin straight 60-weight (a preview of next week's recommendations) which is the only proper oil to keep your engine alive.
02-14-2008, 10:24 PM
#215
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02-14-2008, 11:37 PM
#216
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Cliff's Notes? I'll give it a try...
It started off months ago with some anecdotal data that modern fuel efficient and emissions friendly oil formulations were missing some key ingredients that are important to our engines. Easy solution: use a high grade non-SM oil that has at least 1100 ppm of P and Zn and don't worry about it. Or use a bit of additives to pump up the 20 gal of SM oil you just bought until it's gone. All very sensible stuff.
Then things began to get weird.
Diesel synthetic oils begat motorcycle synthetic oils begat the first discussion of non-synthetic oil ever seen for a post '89 911. Simultaneously, oil weights were up, too. The old 0W40 became 5W40 became 15W40 became 20W50. For track use and sustained Autobahn speeds, right? No, for going to the supermarket for groceries, too.
And it turns out that the heavy sludge makes more power, even! (Who woulda thunk?) Not just that, but even in cold climates, we need to use heavy weight oil now, because--get this--the gaps between the cold bearings are now too vast for normal oil weights. Why, some oil is so thin it can drain right out between the aluminum atoms in your case, then you'll have no oil at all.
This whole topic has jumped the shark, and what started as some very constructive ideas for fixing a very real problem has evolved into a crazy bandwagon of 993 owners scratching their heads at where they'll find pure unrefined organic extra-virgin straight 60-weight (a preview of next week's recommendations) which is the only proper oil to keep your engine alive.
It started off months ago with some anecdotal data that modern fuel efficient and emissions friendly oil formulations were missing some key ingredients that are important to our engines. Easy solution: use a high grade non-SM oil that has at least 1100 ppm of P and Zn and don't worry about it. Or use a bit of additives to pump up the 20 gal of SM oil you just bought until it's gone. All very sensible stuff.
Then things began to get weird.
Diesel synthetic oils begat motorcycle synthetic oils begat the first discussion of non-synthetic oil ever seen for a post '89 911. Simultaneously, oil weights were up, too. The old 0W40 became 5W40 became 15W40 became 20W50. For track use and sustained Autobahn speeds, right? No, for going to the supermarket for groceries, too.
And it turns out that the heavy sludge makes more power, even! (Who woulda thunk?) Not just that, but even in cold climates, we need to use heavy weight oil now, because--get this--the gaps between the cold bearings are now too vast for normal oil weights. Why, some oil is so thin it can drain right out between the aluminum atoms in your case, then you'll have no oil at all.
This whole topic has jumped the shark, and what started as some very constructive ideas for fixing a very real problem has evolved into a crazy bandwagon of 993 owners scratching their heads at where they'll find pure unrefined organic extra-virgin straight 60-weight (a preview of next week's recommendations) which is the only proper oil to keep your engine alive.
Jon,
Ha-ha. Very good. Go Fonzie!
Very good summary. For most of us with simple minds, ... find an oil that is NOT labelled CJ/SM, choose a weight that makes sense to you (factory owners manual seems to have some reasonable suggestions, and use in good health!
FWIW, Some Brad Penn and SWEPCO products meet this criteria as does some ELF and Redline products. I am sure there are others.
02-15-2008, 12:50 AM
#217
02-15-2008, 02:53 AM
#218
Drifting
Hi FlyT993 , you say DH supports M1 without question , isn't that a bit like blind faith (to not question ) that does not sound healthy or academic / sientific in any way shape or form , and then we go to the substantive experience/ knowledge ??? , I would very much like to see the companies (phone numbers included) of the companies (oil companies and the like) he has worked for, and exact job description ,and years of each and contact details , because I ask questions !. For all I know he may have been nothing more than a truck driving instructor (not that there is anything wrong with that ) this could just be a hobbie he has to go and play on the net and read out parrot fashion tech details from sales literature and text books etc , which is his right , its just that he sounds to me too much like a particular oil company salesman . DH can email me direct if he wants with his details that must be verifiable and I will email him all my details on the number of years working on Porsche cars . Then and only then I will take anything he has to say about the servicing and repairs of Porsche cars a littly more seriously . Regards .BB.
02-15-2008, 09:26 AM
#219
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Hi FlyT993 , you say DH supports M1 without question , isn't that a bit like blind faith (to not question ) that does not sound healthy or academic / sientific in any way shape or form , and then we go to the substantive experience/ knowledge ??? , I would very much like to see the companies (phone numbers included) of the companies (oil companies and the like) he has worked for, and exact job description ,and years of each and contact details , because I ask questions !. For all I know he may have been nothing more than a truck driving instructor (not that there is anything wrong with that ) this could just be a hobbie he has to go and play on the net and read out parrot fashion tech details from sales literature and text books etc , which is his right , its just that he sounds to me too much like a particular oil company salesman . DH can email me direct if he wants with his details that must be verifiable and I will email him all my details on the number of years working on Porsche cars . Then and only then I will take anything he has to say about the servicing and repairs of Porsche cars a littly more seriously . Regards .BB.
02-15-2008, 10:01 AM
#220
Boost Junkie
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with all this talk about changing oils, one question that comes to mind is - are there any compatibility issues between any of the oils that have been discussed? any need to do an intermediate change to a dino or whatever to get rid of the old stuff?
02-15-2008, 10:06 AM
#221
In speaking with Charles on this topic, he tells me that changing from M1 to BP 20/50 is not a problem. I don't know about miscibility (mixability) of other combos, though. BP is 10% synthetic, BTW.
02-15-2008, 05:11 PM
#222
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FWIW, I just ordered three cases of Redline's 10W-40 motor oil (not race oil). I traded PM's with another Rennlister who has done some extensive test for fifteen years and has seen the least amount of wear in this oil. Seeing as how it gets approval from Steve Weiner and Charles Navarro, I am going to go with it in all of my cars, including the race car.
02-15-2008, 05:19 PM
#223
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FWIW, I just ordered three cases of Redline's 10W-40 motor oil (not race oil). I traded PM's with another Rennlister who has done some extensive test for fifteen years and has seen the least amount of wear in this oil. Seeing as how it gets approval from Steve Weiner and Charles Navarro, I am going to go with it in all of my cars, including the race car.
Andreas
02-15-2008, 07:01 PM
#225
Drifting
Why not email Doug directly and ask him kindly for his credentials rather than trying to publicly cast aspersions on his background? I for one am very grateful to have his input here on Rennlist. Being from an MIT engineering background it is quite apparent to me that his knowledge is far beyond the level of any salesman and is obviously coming from someone who has an extensive comprehension and experience in the field.
we have been following Dougs advice both here and on landshark forum. Even Doug himself quotes,
b) If the oil meets ACEA A3 specification and is a 0w or 5w-40 then it> looks like it may be Approved by Porsche but subject to c) below>>
c) To get Porsche’s "Approval" the oil has to be a minimum of Group 3> and not less than ACEA A3*, API’s SH*/ILSAC GF-1*, and it must meet> these additional requirements:
Doug specifically says that only oils which meet ACEA A3 approval should be used in porsche vehicles, yet for the past few years he has been recommending Mobil Delvac 5-40(diesel oil) which does not meet ACEA A3. here are the specifications of Mobil Delvac 5-40(diesel oil)
5W-40 Mobil Delvac 1 Meets or Exceeds the following
industry and builder specifications:
X API CI-4 PLUS/CI-4/CH-4/CG-4/CF-4/CF/SL/SJ
X ACEA E7/E5/E4/E3
X Caterpillar ECF-1
X Cummins CES 20072/20071
X Detroit Diesel Power Guard Oil Specification
X Ford WSS-M2C171-D
X Global DHD-1
X JASO DH-1
Doug is a firm believer that AW oils are a replacement for the ZDDP in the older oil and that ZDDP will become obsolete? if this is so why has mobil now included ZDDP back into its M1 15-15 oil which has been missing some years now? its seems that mobil have now realised there is no synthetic replacment for this crucial additive.
Now a bit on our background,
I Have been working on Porsche vehicles for the past 30+ years, 15 of them was at a porsche dealership here in Sydney before starting our own porsche specialist repair shop. We have continued to use the oil that was used at the porsche dealership when i left. which was Valvoline Turbo V, then GP50 and now it is Maxlife 20-50. throughout the years of servicing 911,944 and 928's from this era we are yet to see any wear what so ever on any of vehicles we have been servicing with this oil. Zero Wear . i know that may be hard for you to comprehend.
there are 3 or 4 other porsche specialist in our area that we communticate with on a regular basis. 3 of these specialist changed to Mobil1 oils when porsche did in the early '90s. all was fine for the first few years of sevicing until Mobil changed their formula replacing ZDDP with a synthetic additive. throughout this time we have seen and heard of from these specialist incredible wear to the cars running such oils. as i have posted in another thread the latest one was a 1989 944 turbo running Mobil1 15-50 AW oil with 50 000kms on the clock. the car was a weekend use only, never tracked. the wear was extensive, tthe camshaft was scored beyond repair, the lifters were ground down as if someone had taken to them with a angle grinder. all 4 bores had scoring, there was no thrust bearing left!! the crank was gringing away at the block and girdle. the list goes on.
All of these specialist workshop then stopped using these oils and went back to oils of the old design with ZDDP. and now they have no more problems. How can this be?
BB