Peter B

Dear Portugal993, within this thread I think that you have been given some good advice. If there is a Service Bulletin that directly relates to the problem that your car is experiencing then there is a chance you will get some help from your local Porsche dealer BUT if you go in along the lines that you have suggested in your earlier posts I think any good-will will evaporate very rapidly.

Suggested reading matter- Nicolo Machiavelli "The Prince"!

In the meantime (because its a long book) kiss their ar5ses because it is the dealership that holds all the aces here and goodwill wont be forthcoming if you tear shreds off them before they've even started.

Patience Grasshopper!

Portugal993

Thanx Peter, and when I said demand I didn't mean I'd come in there shouting at them, or even being rude, but the thing is, you have to be firm with them. There's a huge difference between demanding something and disrespecting people or shouting. All i meant was that I think they should be held responsible for the bad service and I don't want to simply let them get away with it. I believe there's a reason that we pay so much to get our car serviced at the porsche dealership, and that reason is quality, and in this case, I just didn't see it. In the worst case scenario I can resort to an institute which defends consumer's rights (instituto da defesa do consumidor) and see if they really can be held responsible. I know a few people that have resorted to them and they really do help.
And sorry if I've seemed rude in this thread, but I came on this forum to get some help and there haven't been many people that have really helped.
And I've actually been dying to read that book but haven't really been able to find it in Portugal. There's not much selection for books in English (I know it wasn't written in English originally), but I prefer readng in English. And I really don't think I'd have time to read it, seeing as all I've been reading is books about law. I'm probably going to end up having a library at home at the end of my course:P I'm at the beginning of my second year and already have about 25 books:P

Wilder

Funny thread...

Firstly, your car circumstances aside, you're the one who provided details about your age/finances/insurance/long-distance GF situation to a bunch of guys who have more than a few years of experience over you. If you don't like their comments, stop whining and take responsibility for your actions.

Secondly, if you were a grown man and some 18 y/o kid with an attitude who is new to the forum posted looking for a free ride on fixing the Porsche his daddy bought him so he can spend his money (probably allowance/trust) on buying tickets to visit his long-distance GF, how would you react?

mhm993

children, let's play nice.......
and that goes for the 18 year old kind , the the older age kind of children too!

Portugal993

If you don't have anything to add to the topic don't post

Bob Rouleau

Guys, I have followed this thread from the start. I believe that I was the only one to offer some useful info (common problem on the 1995 993). I am rather ashamed at the treatment the young man has been given. The rude comments did not start with Portugal 993 the way I see it. Cheap shots because an 18 year old has a 993? Are you jealous? Let's also make allowances for this thread being in English as opposed to Portugese.

Are you all defending all POrsche dealers? Are some of you not the same guys who lament the fact that getting competent service on an air cooled Porsche is difficult at a dealer?

Finally, Portugal993, Rennlist is normally a friendly and helpful place. Please, don't let this thread sour you on the list. Perhaps everyone is in track withdrawal as winter approaches. Whatever the reason, folks here are not usually this unpleasant.

Best,

Portugal993

Thanx bob, I really hope not everyone on this forum is like this. I don't understand what compels people to come on here jsut to insult me? All I asked was whether the dealer can be held responsible and if the service bulletin Bob mentioned could help my situation. Why post if you have nothing to add... (rhetorical question, don't answer)

ppashley

Heya Portugal993. Keep posting and keep smiling too... hey you're 18 and have a 993. You lucky fella. Working or not!.

There is a lot of good info to be had on the forum, and don't worry too much if people give you a hard time. Sometimes you need a thick skin on this forum... I'm not sure why, but its the way it is. Mostly people are very very very helpful, and friendly too.

People probably wish they were too given a 993 at 18....

Good luck to you trying to get your car straight. I'd be very interested to understand how you get on.

Keep us posted

Portugal993

thanx ashley. I'll deffinitely update the thread after I go down to the dealership. Really hope I can get this sorted soon. Sucks getting up everyday knowing I have to take the metro insted of driving a porsche:P

race911

I can relate. Sort of. 1980: Me, 18 and just purchased a 12 y.o. 911. Now a '68 short wheelbase is light years away from ANY 993. So 3 months later I have a holed piston. .040" shaved off the cylinders of some 2.0S 9.9:1's for even more compression. Uh huh. I got laughed out of nearly every Porsche shop in the Bay Area I wandered into. Except two. Guess? Garretson, where none other than Bruce Anderson and Jerry Woods gave me the what's what and that was so reassuring as I dove into the unknown in rebuilding a 911 engine as my very first major mechanical job. There was this other guy named Ludwig Katz whose shop I hung around, too. He'd be pretty drunk in the afternoon when I went over to his place after I was done with classes, telling me stories of running tanks in Africa for Rommel. And always let me take his 2.8L targa for a spin.

27 years later having owned that specific car, and me trashing the engine, has led to a lifetime of enjoyment.

The point here? Courtesy will get you everywhere. And if you concentrate less on "gimme" and dig into the thing, down the road you won't even remember who the 18 y.o. chick was. I don't.

Portugal993

Haha wow, it's so amazing that you remember all that. Must've been a good experience, except for the being laughed at part:P. I actually have a story pretty similar to your's. I've been doing motocross since I was about 9, and I always tried fixing everything myself, even when I didn't know what i was doing, and then I'd mess it all up and end up taking it to the shop where the mechanics would explain it to me, and I still remember almost everything I tried to fix back then, and really learnt a lot about bikes. Only thing I don't like is opening up the cylinder.
I think after I get this taken care of I'm going to start taking my car to a little garage I have by my house, which belongs to an ex-rally driver, one who's won most titles in portugal, he's pretty old now, and he only ever raced porsches. I had a chat with him the other day and I think if I start taking it there I'll be able to come down and see what they're doing and really learn from them.

jimbo3

I intended absolutely no offense. Just calling a spade a spade. All the reference information you need is on the first page of this thread (mostly in Bob's TSB note) plus suggestions on how to put together a plan of attack in working/negotiating with the dealer (receipts, TSB, history, possible issues/solutions, etc). Still, on three more pages, you primarily wanted this forum to continue speculating on how much you could expect to get free or at a big discount from a specific dealer for your specific issue (no one knows that) instead of concentrating on building a case and then working with the dealer and, just maybe, the Porsche rep.

Eventually, you reveal that your real issue is that you don't have any money, which I (and maybe most) kinda figured right from the start and you appear to be working extra hard on every conceivable angle to try to get something for nothing. (Regrets if that's not accurate, but it most definately IS the way that YOU portrayed YOURSELF. And your lack of money must have been the issue because you wouldn't have mentioned it if it wasn't.) This forum is heavily populated with the very antithesis of that lifestyle, so it should be no surprise to anyone that many here are critical of that. Additionally, there are number of adults here who have or had a teenager in their life who sound like you- when you're 40 and have a teenage boy, look back on this thread and you'll understand where many of their comments here came from.

I stand by ALL my suggestions and comments with the only addendum being to suggest taking an experienced negotiator along with you to the dealership in lieu of your father. (A family friend that's a sales manager, mid-30's or 40's with around 10 years management experience, perhaps?) Frankly speaking, your youth, inexperience and attitude will otherwise get you eaten alive if the negotiations get dicey, and they probably will due to the fact that you're negotiating from a position of weakness. I certainly didn't mean to touch a sore spot of not having a father around to help and guide you through these things. I apologize- I didn't anticipate that that was the case.

I truly hope that you get anything that may be rightfully coming to you on this issue. Prepare yourself as best as you possibly can to improve your odds, then go in expecting nothing and be excited if/when you get something.

Portugal993

HAHA, just wanted to comment on what you said about my father, and it's a good thing he's not here to guide me. He'd end up swearing and shouting, then storming out of the dealership. He works in another country and I see him pretty frequently so it's not a big deal. And when I said i have no money I didn't mean I'm poor, but I have more important things to spend money on, like 500€ worth of books for uni. So yes, I am trying to get the car fixed for free, but the point is I'm not doing it because I'm cheap or trying to cheat the dealership, which is what you're implying by saying trying to get something for nothing. I just think because it was their fault I shouldn't pay for it! And I'm not trying to deny my lack of money to be the issue, but I could get enough money to pay for it in about a month. I just think it's unfair that I should pay for it, because it was the dealership that ignored the problem when it was pointed out to them twice. That's why I'm putting emphasis on them doing it free of charge. I just don't see why I should pay for their mistake?! And take time to get the money to fix it.
As for negotiating, I have a lot of experience with it, but really no point explaining it in this post. And maybe I made it seem like I would be disrespectful to the dealers but that's not the case at all.
Also, I could ask my dad to pay for it and it would get done in a week, but this is my car and I tend to solve the problem myself, even if I end up having to pay for the repairs, because I don't want to live off my parents, I try to be as independent as I can. And since when is this a forum for rich people? I thought this was a forum for people who like or own porsches, if it'll help me get respect here I can tell everyone about the homes we own that cost millions of euros in the south of portugal and moscow, or my golf clubs that cost 3 times as much as the repair, but who cares?! THIS IS A CAR FORUM. I asked a car related question. I didn't come here to discuss my life or how much money I have. Anyone in my situation would want to get this done for free. It's not about how much money you have, it's about not getting screwed over for 1000€.

Naplesguy06

You have a problem paying for things and that is apprent with your membership status as a user. You have received some valuable frr advice and you should be thankful. The time and energy that you spent in debate 101 with the folks here could be spent better by contacting Porsche in Germany or whomever handles you Country. Porsche cars North America does not give the bak away and if Germany doesnt paarove the warranty or recall work, you pay for it. Like the others have suggested, sell the car and buy yourself something cheaper to own. You are only tasting the begginning of what is to come, especiallyas`a`DD. Your car was rear ended and thats unfotunate witha rear engine car. I dont care what the body shop did it was still impacted. That alone could have mitigated the issue with the tranny. If you have a recall that was not acted upon or you received notice and did not act diligenly,you may not have a leg to stand on unless it is a safety issue that presents public danger, i.e. fuel lines, fuel tank, fuel injection, brakes, etc. Tranny shift is hardley an emergency. You have a right to be suspicious of the stealer, dealer there job is to sell you service and they will if you walk in there with dad's credit card or mom's checkbook. Do not go in there and pretend to be a wiseguy, they have more money than you do and lawyers on retainor at thier disposal, if you sue them and lose you are responsible for thier legal fees and court cost, if you win vice versa and your tranny is still broken and they will refuse to work on your car and being that your in Portugal I dont see the chance of too many factory mechanics familiare with the 993 on hand to help you. One more thing life isnt black and white, pay or not pay, it is a negotiation and life requires give and take, work it out with them peacefully and with a humble heart because it is written an angry tongue stirs up wrath but a peaceful tongue brings peace.

cabrio993