SAI housing questions
Thread Starter
Racer
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 364
Likes: 1
From: New Hampshire
SAI housing questions
I think I've read through every SAI thread. I felt great about getting the old SAI valve out (break off sheet metal part and use 27mm socket approach), but...... the distributor housing has those leaky/corroded plugs so the air/solvent is leaking out as I try to flush.
I saw lots of great detail from C4S_FAN (Dennis from Seattle) and have attached one of his photos below, but I have one specific question as I proceed.
Q: According to the PET diagram, the two bolts that mount the SAI distributor housing are one 6mm x25mm on the left hand side (no prob), but the right hand side one is shown as an 8mm x 35mm long with a LOOSE NUT/WASHER ? I can't even see where that nut/washer may be. Do I just remove the bolt ? (The one that goes in the hole that you can see half on under the right side air tube in picture below) or do I loose a nut that way ? (oops, no pun intended)
By the way - yes, my SAI valve was a rusty mess, on a 98 with 38K miles.
On the plus side - I did finish all TWELVE spark plugs this weekend !
I saw lots of great detail from C4S_FAN (Dennis from Seattle) and have attached one of his photos below, but I have one specific question as I proceed.
Q: According to the PET diagram, the two bolts that mount the SAI distributor housing are one 6mm x25mm on the left hand side (no prob), but the right hand side one is shown as an 8mm x 35mm long with a LOOSE NUT/WASHER ? I can't even see where that nut/washer may be. Do I just remove the bolt ? (The one that goes in the hole that you can see half on under the right side air tube in picture below) or do I loose a nut that way ? (oops, no pun intended)
By the way - yes, my SAI valve was a rusty mess, on a 98 with 38K miles.
On the plus side - I did finish all TWELVE spark plugs this weekend !
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Joined: May 2001
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From: Vancouver, BC
If the plugs are blow you could try using JB Weld to plug the holes again...the stuff is amazing and impervious to fuel and exhaust. It s a two part expoxy that you mix and just stuff into the hole that you are plugging.
The two bolts do not have nuts but are threaded into the top of the engine. I guess you are thinking you have to replace the manifold...its a real bear as Dennis will attest to. Its unusual that the plugs in this manifold have failed...in the case of Dennis he cracked his when removing the SAI valve. If its a crack I would remove it ; if its a failed plug I would try the JB route.
Let us know how it goes.
Cheers,
Mike
The two bolts do not have nuts but are threaded into the top of the engine. I guess you are thinking you have to replace the manifold...its a real bear as Dennis will attest to. Its unusual that the plugs in this manifold have failed...in the case of Dennis he cracked his when removing the SAI valve. If its a crack I would remove it ; if its a failed plug I would try the JB route.
Let us know how it goes.
Cheers,
Mike
Thread Starter
Racer
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 364
Likes: 1
From: New Hampshire
Thanks Mike. I was hoping that the PET diagram was wrong, and had not seen any mention of an issue from those who mentioned removing it. I also got a PM back from Dennis / C4S_Fan that he did not remember any nut.
Very familiar with JB-Weld.... I am going to remove the little manifold and repair the holes with it out of the car. I already have the two lines disconnected ! Hopefully get a chance during the day today finish getting it out.
Very familiar with JB-Weld.... I am going to remove the little manifold and repair the holes with it out of the car. I already have the two lines disconnected ! Hopefully get a chance during the day today finish getting it out.
Thread Starter
Racer
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 364
Likes: 1
From: New Hampshire
That was not "too" bad - got the SAI housing out in about an hour this morning. (OK, I am at the office but spending about all my time working on the 993...). The plug that faces the rear of the car is really corroded through, and the second picture shows the plug that faces the center of the engine - I poked that hole with a ball point pen. Off to see if I can find some 14mm plugs, or something close that I can JB-weld in place.
Three Wheelin'
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 1,795
Likes: 2
From: Ottawa, Ontario
Is that manifold removable without taking the SAI valve off first? It might be an easy way to go for those (like me) having trouble getting the valve off. Once on the bench it would be easier to access the 27mm nut.
Thread Starter
Racer
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 364
Likes: 1
From: New Hampshire
1 - Removing manifold with SAI valve still in place ? Not sure I would want to try that, but it possibly could be done. You would have to luck out and be able to disconnect the right hand line with just a crow's foot wrench. Even with the SAI valve removed, getting the manifold out involved using a mirror to get to one of the bolts and I removed a bolt and a nut from the bracket that holds the air pump to flex it out of the way, etc.
To remove the SAI valve, I inserted a ratchet handle in the top and flexed back/forth and it snapped off where the sheet metal meets the 27mm nut. Then went in with a die grinder (or Dremel) to clean up the 27mm hex until socket fit on. Then soaked the fitting, and used 27mm socket on the impact gun (yup - that was scary, but it worked better to break it loose rather than pushing so hard on a breaker bar off angle and risking cracking the manifold)
2 - Adding fittings: If you want a fitting to introduce cleaner, I would add it to the lines that come up out of the manifold and go to each side. (Perhaps, cut and add a union with a "tee" or something) Actually the left side line would be easy to disconnect, put cleaner into the line and put air to the line to clean the left side.
Now that I have the manifold out and removed the two plugs that were rusted out.... you should see the "crud" in the manifold ! Large chunks that build up behind where the plugs were.
Re-assembly starts today !
To remove the SAI valve, I inserted a ratchet handle in the top and flexed back/forth and it snapped off where the sheet metal meets the 27mm nut. Then went in with a die grinder (or Dremel) to clean up the 27mm hex until socket fit on. Then soaked the fitting, and used 27mm socket on the impact gun (yup - that was scary, but it worked better to break it loose rather than pushing so hard on a breaker bar off angle and risking cracking the manifold)
2 - Adding fittings: If you want a fitting to introduce cleaner, I would add it to the lines that come up out of the manifold and go to each side. (Perhaps, cut and add a union with a "tee" or something) Actually the left side line would be easy to disconnect, put cleaner into the line and put air to the line to clean the left side.
Now that I have the manifold out and removed the two plugs that were rusted out.... you should see the "crud" in the manifold ! Large chunks that build up behind where the plugs were.
Re-assembly starts today !
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Three Wheelin'
Joined: Dec 2004
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From: Ottawa, Ontario
Last night I tried to remove the manifold with the valve in place, but could not get on the bolt on the left hand side. Is it also a 10mm head? It is sort of under the wiring harness and against a piece of sheet metal. Thought I better search the Rennlist archives for a solution to getting it out before I break something. When I go at the SAI valve with my bent wrench something is flexing and still the valve does not budge. Does the manifold sit on sheet metal?
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Thread Starter
Racer
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 364
Likes: 1
From: New Hampshire
Paul902,
In order to get to that left bolt (yes, 10mm head), I first removed the bolt that holds that bracket (also 10mm head) and it would start to flex some to allow the socket to go between the wiring harness and bracket. In order to make it flex more/easier, I also removed one of the nuts that holds the rubber mounts to that bracket. I have a mirror (like 4" x 6") that was needed to see all this hardware. Send me a PM if you need more details - this is fresh in my mind since I just removed it yesterday. If you have the PET part diagrams or access to them I can refer you by item numbers.
Yes, the manifold is mounted on sheet metal - the black painted engine "tin" between engine and body.
In order to get to that left bolt (yes, 10mm head), I first removed the bolt that holds that bracket (also 10mm head) and it would start to flex some to allow the socket to go between the wiring harness and bracket. In order to make it flex more/easier, I also removed one of the nuts that holds the rubber mounts to that bracket. I have a mirror (like 4" x 6") that was needed to see all this hardware. Send me a PM if you need more details - this is fresh in my mind since I just removed it yesterday. If you have the PET part diagrams or access to them I can refer you by item numbers.
Yes, the manifold is mounted on sheet metal - the black painted engine "tin" between engine and body.
Three Wheelin'
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 1,795
Likes: 2
From: Ottawa, Ontario
Thanks BIG_BRO. I'll have a look at that tonight or tomorrow and if I need more specific info I'll pm you for part numbers, but I think the info in your post should help. Do you remember what size crowfoot is needed for the air lines?
Thread Starter
Racer
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 364
Likes: 1
From: New Hampshire
The fittings on the air lines are 17mm. Try a flare nut wrench to break lose if you can get on at the right angle (ha !) 
. Then I used both a 17mm crows foot or open end to gradually unthread them. I tried to get on the other end of the right hand side line to totally remove it, but..... between the fuel rail and PS pump, no go. The left hand line will lift up out of the way. The right hand line rotated enough once the manifold was loose to wiggle manifold out of there.
. Then I used both a 17mm crows foot or open end to gradually unthread them. I tried to get on the other end of the right hand side line to totally remove it, but..... between the fuel rail and PS pump, no go. The left hand line will lift up out of the way. The right hand line rotated enough once the manifold was loose to wiggle manifold out of there.
Burning Brakes
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 877
Likes: 11
From: Vancouver, BC
I wouldn't recommend removing the distributor unless you have to. It was by far, the biggest pain in the *** to get back it. Everything has to line up *just right*, otherwise, you'll struggle to get it back in.
Then, getting the tubes to line up so that they'll thread correctly makes it much worse (well, it was for me!)
Big-Bro's approach to get it back in place was the way I got it back in..."The left hand line will lift up out of the way. The right hand line rotated enough once the manifold was loose to wiggle manifold out of there."
Then, getting the tubes to line up so that they'll thread correctly makes it much worse (well, it was for me!)
Big-Bro's approach to get it back in place was the way I got it back in..."The left hand line will lift up out of the way. The right hand line rotated enough once the manifold was loose to wiggle manifold out of there."
Thread Starter
Racer
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 364
Likes: 1
From: New Hampshire
I guess the 993 gods were with me tonight. The SAI manifold went back in relatively easily....
- drop in place
-thread both lines in just a few threads so you know they are started but the manifold will still float around
- drop right hand bolt in hole
- put socket on and wiggle manifold around until you find the threaded hole
- put left hand bolt in hole (I used needle nose vise-grips)
- wedge socket on long extension behind that wire harness (this is where the mirror comes in handy again to be able to guide the socket onto the bolt head)
- then a miracle occurs and the bolt actually finds the threaded hole !
- tighten bolts, then tighten lines.
SAI valve is back in ! (one trip over to my buddy's shop to use his torch to "adjust" the angle on SAI wrench I made, per Rennlist)
Air cleaner housing is mostly in...... but it's time for a beer ! and I'll wedge my hands in there to engage the MAF and that hose clamp tomorrow !
- drop in place
-thread both lines in just a few threads so you know they are started but the manifold will still float around
- drop right hand bolt in hole
- put socket on and wiggle manifold around until you find the threaded hole
- put left hand bolt in hole (I used needle nose vise-grips)
- wedge socket on long extension behind that wire harness (this is where the mirror comes in handy again to be able to guide the socket onto the bolt head)
- then a miracle occurs and the bolt actually finds the threaded hole !
- tighten bolts, then tighten lines.
SAI valve is back in ! (one trip over to my buddy's shop to use his torch to "adjust" the angle on SAI wrench I made, per Rennlist)
Air cleaner housing is mostly in...... but it's time for a beer ! and I'll wedge my hands in there to engage the MAF and that hose clamp tomorrow !
Three Wheelin'
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 1,795
Likes: 2
From: Ottawa, Ontario
BIG-BRO, congrats on getting the job done!
How did you fix the plugs in the end?
I am tempted to try the torch method to get the valve itself out, but I might look around with a mirror to see if my ports are gone like yours were. In that case it is manifold removal time for sure.
Please send me your halo!
How did you fix the plugs in the end?
I am tempted to try the torch method to get the valve itself out, but I might look around with a mirror to see if my ports are gone like yours were. In that case it is manifold removal time for sure.
Please send me your halo!
Thread Starter
Racer
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 364
Likes: 1
From: New Hampshire
I put in new expansion plugs. Looks like they are 14mm (.551 ?, measured .555" with the slight taper they normally have). I picked up 9/16" (.5625 - ~.57) plugs at the parts store and just a used the grinder/file to reduce slightly and tapped them in with hammer.