Doug Hillary

Hi Aaron,
this is the type of suction pump I use;

http://www.polarislabs1.com/oil-sample.htm

As you build a "trend" remember that the wear metals are accumulative and will mostly disappear at the oil change (OC) (some oil remains of course). Virgin oil also has a content of some metals and perhaps silicon too. Sample at the mid point of the OC cycle and during the OC. Keep a record of topups during the UOA sample intervals and OC interval

Regards

Charles Navarro

Doug, you are spot on. I've printed out the ACEA limits and the cam lifter limits are much better, no more than 10 micrometers. I think the API has grown lax in their allowances, especially after reading how many cam lifter problems they had in developing the IIIG sequence.

FLYT993

Ok, I think I'm going with Redline's products....the 10w-40 or the 15w-50. They recommend not running the 15w-50 in engines with sustained oil temps below 225F, but my car seems to consistently run at 9 o'clock or slightly above...also can someone explain what these numbers actually mean....in layman's terms...

http://www.redlineoil.com/pdf/4.pdf

tj90

Thanks for all the information. A continual learning process! Interesting comment about the ACEA A3/B3 HTHS testing. The temperature where the test is conducted - 302F - is the red part of our oil temp guage. If my car temp is headed north of 10 o'clock (243F), Ive got big problems. The fact that an A3/B3 oil passes 10um cam lifter wear (Thanks Charles for stating the limits) at this temp extreme is impressive.

But it makes me wonder if 15-50w oil is "overkill" since at the worst case oil temp (300F), the 40w oils are still providing wear protection at 3 Cst. With the lower viscosity oils you also get the added benefit of higher oil flow at or below at 212F. WOW - porsche may have been on to something recommending 0w-40 for the 993?! Oops - opening another can of worms, SORRY!

Doug Hillary

Hi,
yes tj90 - it is overkill!

M1 0w-40 is one of the best SAE40 viscosity engine lubricants ever developed regardless of cost. Its Group 4/5 base structure is very robust indeed and it has an unparrelled first rate reputation amongst Euro engine makers. It is no wonder why it is the Porsche factory fill (and MB/AMG too)

Castrol's Edge 0w-40 (Group 3) product is also very good as is Shell's Helix Ultra 5w-40 (Group 3) - both of which are Porsche Approved and Listed

I do not have ANY affiliation with ANY Oil Company and use Shell, Castrol and Mobil synthetic products in a wide range of vehicles. I could never justify the cost/use/benefits of Boutique lubricants

Regards

tj90

Doug: Any difference in wear tests for B3 and B3/B4 oils? I noticed that this is the only difference between M1 and the Havoline synthetic I have stockpiled. Maybe B4 is a new test standard?

Doug Hillary

Hi,
tj90 - the ACEAs nomenclature changed in 2004. It went from separate "A" petrol and "B" Categories to a combination such as A3/B3-04 etc. since 1996 it WAS common for an Oil Company to state both for multi use lubricants - hence A3/96, B3/96 etc

B4 is one of the "newer" categories - with a clear purpose

The main difference between B3 and B4 is related to Piston Cleanliness and Ring Sticking. B3 uses a VW 1.6ltr TcD based test regime in that area and the B4 test is predicated to the VW DI engine. Cam and other wear limits are the same. B4 can be used as for B3 but B3 is not compliant for DI diesel (B4) use

Chevron-Caltex-Havoline's Group 3 synthetic lubricants are of the very highest quality and are produced using very advanced techniques and technologies. I operated the Chevron-Caltex Technical Training facility in Copenhagen (Denmark) in the 1960s

Regards

DJF1

Yes, thanks Doug for bringing into the light some good info. Hopefully this will ease the latest craze that has drove non experts like me up the wall with what oil to use and I'm glad I stockpiled on my trusty Mobil 1

Regarding the 15-50 for the 993, first of all Porsche used to recommend it while the 993 was new. This for me is a good justification alone on why I should use it. Furthermore, I believe that the thickness of the 15-50 plays an important role in the lubrication of our engines, which changed with the 996/Boxster blocks which require 0-40. There were plenty posts to that effect.
Besides that my mechanic of 30+ years swears on the 15-50 and wont put anything else in my engine

Doug Hillary

Hi Danny,
yes it is everybody's perogative to use what they believe is best for their circumstance and M1 has a world wide reputation for excellence. Their only "light point" was their TriSynthtetic formulation of some years ago
Mobil 1 15w-50 and M1 0w-40 are entirely different "animals" - and as mentioned in Post No 50, M1 0w-40 is a very advanced and durable product

Since 1992 Porsche factory filled with a synthetic - firstly Shell TMO 10w-30 and after consumer exposure changed to Shell 5w-40. They were the first car maker to factory fill all engines with a synthetic. They have endorsed SAE40 (0w-40 and 5w-40) synthetic oils in their TSBs ever since

It is a great shame that Mobil do not market their excellent M1 5w-50 lubricant in NA - I believe that it is available in Canada. The 5w being much better than 15w in all cold start situations

Enjoy
Regards

FLYT993

Doug--

I'm assuming "Redline" falls into the category of "boutique" lubricants and it would be more cost effective without diminished performance or protection, to use the M1 or Castrol Syntec versions of the same weight, as these are oils of "similiar specifications"? I know I speak for others, who appreciate you taking the time to share, and weigh in on what has seemingly become the equivalent of opening an oil related, "Pandora's Box". Thanks.

FLYT993

Doug--

Forgot to ask, is the "base stock" that the lubricant is eventually derived from truly a critical component in it's quality/performance. Specifically, is the Polyol Ester base stock the superior element it is described to be?

http://www.redlineoil.com/products_m...1&categoryID=1

FLYT993

TJ90, et al.

Look what I found: Castrol Syntec...directly from their website...

"SAE 5W-50:
Provides the widest range of protection available. SAE 5W-50 delivers exceptional cold temperature pumpability for rapid oil circulation at start-up and provides a thick oil film for ultimate wear protection. Exceeds all car and light truck manufacturer's warranty requirements for the protection of gasoline, diesel and turbocharged engines where API SM, SL, SJ, SH, CF or CD is recommended. Exceeds European ACEA: A3, B3, B4; Ford WSS-M2C931-A and the engine protection requirements of GM 4718M, ILSAC GF-4 for API Certified Gasoline Engine Oils. "

Toddimus

Hmmm... 5W-50... very interesting.

Thanks Doug and Steve and others chiming in, I love the discussion. Keep it going!

tj90

Looking at my 95 owners manual it states for synthetic - mostly greater than 50F : 10w40, 15w40 and 15w50. mostly lower than 50F: 10w40, 10w30 and 5w30.

Please correct me, but I dont think 0w40, 5w40 and 5w50 existed in 1995. These new formulations may have helped fill the gap in oil and allow most users to use 1 multigrade year around.

Whats really funny is porsche recommendations for mineral oil: mostly greater than 50C: 15w40, 20w50 and sae40. Wow, you would get shot on RL if you publically stated you were running straight 40w!

Steve Weiner-Rennsport Systems

Count me in that category too, as I've learned some new things here, as well.