DIY - remove trany and ship out syncros?
03-18-2007, 10:30 AM
#1
DIY - remove trany and ship out syncros?
Is it worth it to drop the transmission yourself and then ship out the 3rd gear syncro for repair to a shop? What are the hard parts and is it topic covered in any repair manuals. $1900 of labor for 12hrs seems excessive. Thanks.
03-18-2007, 10:37 AM
#2
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if you have not done it before, it will be a lot cheaper in the long run to contact Brian Copans and send the entire thing to him in a large cooler (kind of strange but it works...)
03-18-2007, 11:46 AM
#4
Can I do the removal? If it's bolts, standard tool and jacks I can handle it. What is the DIY rating 1- 10 not including subing the syncro repair? Also, how difficult is it to replace, once I get the tranny back?
In addition, any steps posted and does it matter if C4S? Thanks, Jack
In addition, any steps posted and does it matter if C4S? Thanks, Jack
03-18-2007, 01:01 PM
#5
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I just did one with Briefescape...we dropped his C4 tranny and he shipped it out for rebuilding, replaced the clutch/flywheel, did misc maintenance (plugs, etc) and put it all back in.
Contrary to public opinion, there is nothing magic about working on 911' other than their air cooled so the oil lines are much larger, etc. And NO antifreeze to drop!. To drop the engine you need a good metric set of sockets and allen keys and a few torx bits (for the suspension). When I used to do this on the floor (I have a two post lift now) I used three jacks for the engine drop. Here is the summary of the work involved (don't quote me on this...I am just trying to give you a feel of the work):
1 - Get the car up nice and high on jackstands. Put another set of jackstands under for extra safety.
2 - Disconnect all the electrical, fuel, power steering and venting hoses from the top. Remove the A/C unit. You wil have to take out the heating and intake plastics.
3 - Go under and dump the oil and filters. Put new filters in. Remove the wheels and the mufflers. Remove the driveshaft flange bolts, electrical power and ground (starter), heating tubes, oil lines, shifter etc. Remove the front and back cross suspension bar, sway bar, etc. Don't forget to make the position of the eccentric bolts for the toe adjustment with a felt pen (you will lose the back alignment when you drop the engine...you need the marks to get it back).
4 - Support the engine with three jacks, one on the tail of the tranny and the other two on each side of the engine on the heat exchangers. Use a piece of 3/4 plywood across the bottom of the engine so there is even support.
5 - Use the jacks to put pressure on the engine, undo the motor mounts (2 in the rear, 6 by the tranny) and slowly lower the engine. You have to wiggle it around to clear the starter etc.
6 - When its down a bit unto the clutch slave cylinder (top of the tranny) and the throttle line.
7 - Drop the engine to the bottom of the jacks. I use a mobile stand for my bandsaw to lower the engine onto...that way the engine is on wheels.
8 - Lift the back of the car up and over the engine as you slide it down. I have a large I beam in the shop so I just use a come-a-long to lift the bum of the car about 4' in the air. If you don't have this you have a few options.
- Take off the rear bumper so you don't need as much clearance.
- Use a large floor jack to raise the rear of the car up high to clear the engine.
9 - Pull the engine out and seperate the engine from the tranny. You have to remove the clutch fork shaft to do this (as detailed in the manual). Then it just comes apart.
You essentially do the reverse to put it all together but watch your torque values...just about all the bolts on a 993 has a value set to it. Its worth investing in a few good torque wrenches (small and large). You wil have to replace the power steering fluids and the engine oil to do the drop.
If you do slow it will take a while but its rewarding and you will be much faster the second time. You can also take the opportunity to clean the engine compartment, replace your sound pad, clean the engine, change the plugs, SAI valve etc on the engine, etc.
You will need an alignment after its all over.
The procedure is on Robin's site (I think) and its detailed in the shop manuals (although its not that well written).
I have done this entire procedure totally by myself a few times...it takes a bit of patience but its doable. If you are a reasonable shadetree mechanic its not that hard. Having a second set of hands at times is handy.
DIY rating? About a 6 (from a guy who rebuilt his engine from the crank up...that was a 10). Some people might thing is more, some less.
Go for it!!
Cheers,
Mike
PS My appologies if I missed something....its much better documented elsewhere.
Contrary to public opinion, there is nothing magic about working on 911' other than their air cooled so the oil lines are much larger, etc. And NO antifreeze to drop!. To drop the engine you need a good metric set of sockets and allen keys and a few torx bits (for the suspension). When I used to do this on the floor (I have a two post lift now) I used three jacks for the engine drop. Here is the summary of the work involved (don't quote me on this...I am just trying to give you a feel of the work):
1 - Get the car up nice and high on jackstands. Put another set of jackstands under for extra safety.
2 - Disconnect all the electrical, fuel, power steering and venting hoses from the top. Remove the A/C unit. You wil have to take out the heating and intake plastics.
3 - Go under and dump the oil and filters. Put new filters in. Remove the wheels and the mufflers. Remove the driveshaft flange bolts, electrical power and ground (starter), heating tubes, oil lines, shifter etc. Remove the front and back cross suspension bar, sway bar, etc. Don't forget to make the position of the eccentric bolts for the toe adjustment with a felt pen (you will lose the back alignment when you drop the engine...you need the marks to get it back).
4 - Support the engine with three jacks, one on the tail of the tranny and the other two on each side of the engine on the heat exchangers. Use a piece of 3/4 plywood across the bottom of the engine so there is even support.
5 - Use the jacks to put pressure on the engine, undo the motor mounts (2 in the rear, 6 by the tranny) and slowly lower the engine. You have to wiggle it around to clear the starter etc.
6 - When its down a bit unto the clutch slave cylinder (top of the tranny) and the throttle line.
7 - Drop the engine to the bottom of the jacks. I use a mobile stand for my bandsaw to lower the engine onto...that way the engine is on wheels.
8 - Lift the back of the car up and over the engine as you slide it down. I have a large I beam in the shop so I just use a come-a-long to lift the bum of the car about 4' in the air. If you don't have this you have a few options.
- Take off the rear bumper so you don't need as much clearance.
- Use a large floor jack to raise the rear of the car up high to clear the engine.
9 - Pull the engine out and seperate the engine from the tranny. You have to remove the clutch fork shaft to do this (as detailed in the manual). Then it just comes apart.
You essentially do the reverse to put it all together but watch your torque values...just about all the bolts on a 993 has a value set to it. Its worth investing in a few good torque wrenches (small and large). You wil have to replace the power steering fluids and the engine oil to do the drop.
If you do slow it will take a while but its rewarding and you will be much faster the second time. You can also take the opportunity to clean the engine compartment, replace your sound pad, clean the engine, change the plugs, SAI valve etc on the engine, etc.
You will need an alignment after its all over.
The procedure is on Robin's site (I think) and its detailed in the shop manuals (although its not that well written).
I have done this entire procedure totally by myself a few times...it takes a bit of patience but its doable. If you are a reasonable shadetree mechanic its not that hard. Having a second set of hands at times is handy.
DIY rating? About a 6 (from a guy who rebuilt his engine from the crank up...that was a 10). Some people might thing is more, some less.
Go for it!!
Cheers,
Mike
PS My appologies if I missed something....its much better documented elsewhere.
03-18-2007, 01:03 PM
#6
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Oh, I missed the part of the C4. It only adds a few steps, you have to disconnect and slid back the driveshaft coupler and disconnect the torque tube. I had a bear of the time with this one on the last car I did, I am not sure why but the coupler did not want to slide back. We ended up "hooking" the engine by getting the tail fo the engine back the bumper and pushing it back into the bumper cavity as far as possible in combination of removing the torque tube mount at the front of the car. This allowed use to get the driveshafts aligned without sliding the coupler back.
Cheers,
Mike
Cheers,
Mike
03-18-2007, 02:18 PM
#7
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If I may add if you need your transmission rebuilt and want to save time and
dollars incase your gears need rebuilt contact these guys http://www.powerhausii.com/ because they are the masters in rebuilding the tranny , even if you bring it to your own shop they probably end up sending the gears to them to be rebuilt . They rebuilt my first and second gears instead of just replacing them . I saved big $$ and the gears came back looking as good as new . My .02 tip
Cheers Guy
dollars incase your gears need rebuilt contact these guys http://www.powerhausii.com/ because they are the masters in rebuilding the tranny , even if you bring it to your own shop they probably end up sending the gears to them to be rebuilt . They rebuilt my first and second gears instead of just replacing them . I saved big $$ and the gears came back looking as good as new . My .02 tip
Cheers Guy
Last edited by briefescape; 03-18-2007 at 09:25 PM.
