autobonrun

I don't know what the temperature was when you were driving in the snow, but I can tell you from personal experience that while they work well in the 20+ degree weather with light snow, cold temperatures, snow, and all season tires don't mix. There is an article on Tirerack that discusses the effect low temperature has on A/S tires.

Last year I had A/S on my bimmer as I had for several years with no problems. I ran into a condition one morning of 5 degrees with snow. The car basically spun in place. I bought a dedicated set of rims with Blizzaks and it got around perfectly the rest of the winter season.

Currently on my M5, I run dedicate rims with Dunlop Winter Sport M3's. They can take both snow and low temperatures. A/S's can not.

This is just my opinion, but to wring the most out of a Porsche, AWD or not, you need summer tires when it's warm and either Snow or Winter Sport tires during the winter. A/S tires compromise your performance during both seasons.

GreggT

Running any Z rubber tire in the cold-wet is fricken nuts.....wouldn't catch me in a Hyundia, much less a Porsche.
I leave trucks & SUVs behind and have a blast. Swear by 240 Snowsports (on two Pcars)....M3s not bad, on the AMG.

martyp

Hmmmm . . . I run Michelin Pilot Exalto A/S on my A4TQ and have had no issues what so ever in any temperature, wet, dry, snow, ice - we get all conditions (many at the same time) here where I live. I can't believe that the right A/S will not work in the snow/cold and not provide reasonable performance. Of course, YMMV as will your choice and condition of tires used to form your opinions.

I'm still putting dedicated snows on my C4

fast_freddy

Just this afternoon coming home from the office it was snowing with about 1-1/2" of snow on the road, some jack *** in a brand new Range Rover passes me going 50 in a 35 zone thinking he has all the traction in the world. Of course he fish tails and also goes into the opposing lane of traffic. Come up to the next stop light and he's gunning his engine like a total fool challenging me. My choices were to do nothing (the wisest) or get out in front of this fool and away from him not trapped behind the possible carnage he will create. So I take the latter option and get away really fast while he spins his tires I along with the car behind get in front of him and beat him to the merge into one lane. At the next stop light he pulls up next to me on the shoulder no less, rolls down his window and has the nerve to tell me that Porsche's don't belong on the road in the winter. I look over at his tires and low and behold they're all season tires (I assume they were as their tread pattern bore no semblance to a snow or M&S tire and this was a brand new vehicle with temp plates). Light turns green, I pull away much faster than him and he cuts off the car behind me getting back onto the road. We go through a 45-50 degree turn and guess what, he oversteers about 60 degrees in a residential neighborhood. If there was another car in the oncoming lane he would have whacked them. Moral of my story/rant, even a very capable off road car equipped with non snow tires in the winter/snow is useless, having a fool at the wheel doesnt help either.

autobonrun

It was well hidden, but this is the article that discusses the preferred temperature range for summer, A/S, and Winter tires. Looks like my memory was correct; about 20 degrees is the low end of the preferred range for A/S tires.

http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tests/...ay.jsp?ttid=80

martyp

Right you are as to the recommended ranges. Interesting that the comparison does not list the ambient temperature during testing, and that the "traction index" difference between the A/S and the P/W tires tested was only 2 points out of a 100. Looks like the traction index was computed by taking the fastest time (studless ice/snow of 4.6 seconds) and dividing by the time of each tire (e.g. I/S score = 4.6/4.6 = 1.0, A/S score = 4.6/6.1 = .75, etc.). Ain't the web a great place to learn stuff?

Anyone out there run studless/studdable winters?

DJF1

Mr. smarty pants when you write stuff here on Rennlist you better double check your facts before you post it as a "fact". You may have an opinion and you are entitled to it but please dont post things as facts when they are just an opinion.
So lets see, I'm going to waste 10 minutes of my time to show you how why from now on you should post correct facts on this board:

1. Pilot Sport PS2, Designation N1 in the following sizes:
235/35ZR19 Blackwall N1 (Porsche OE)
265/35ZR19 Blackwall N1 (Porsche OE)
295/30ZR19 XLBlackwall N1 (Porsche OE)
305/30ZR19 Blackwall N1 (Porsche OE)

2. Pilot Sport Rib, Designation N1 in the following sizes:
225/40ZR18 Blackwall N1 (Porsche OE)
265/35ZR18 Blackwall N1 (Porsche OE)
285/30ZR18 Blackwall N1 (Porsche OE)
295/30ZR18 Blackwall N1 (Porsche OE)

So the PS2 is the same as the Rib in design?

As to your theory of Porsche having designated N0 as 17" tires how do you explain this:

1. Michelin Pilot Sport, Designation N0 in the following sizes:
235/40ZR18 Blackwall N0 (Porsche OE)
315/30ZR18 Blackwall N0 (Porsche OE)

2. Michelin Pilot Sport Cup, designation N0 in the following sizes:
235/35ZR19 Blackwall N0 (Porsche OE)
305/30ZR19 XL Blackwall N0 (Porsche OE)

Need to continue with other tires brands designated N0 or N1?

I really don't want to waste more time compiling data. The designation is a specification assigned by Porsche on a tire that they specified to the manufacturer. N0, N1 etc can be found on the same manufacturer on different tires and on different manufacturers. Porsche does not designate an NX number for a specific tire model and size only. When you order a specific type like the PS2 or the RIB or the CUP or the normal Pilot Sport you look for the N designation within the sizes offered. the same holds true on different manufacturers. This why my Continental Sport Contact that I use as rolling tires on my race car have the designation N1 since at that time they were installed on the car that designation was the current sport contact. And here are their sizes:
205/55ZR16 Blackwall N1 (Porsche OE)
225/50ZR16 Blackwall N1 (Porsche OE)

This is what is also posted on Tire Rack:
The full article: http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tirete...currentpage=46

autobonrun

Agreed, the temperature at the time of the test should have been provided. What the test says to me is that the only tire that performs well on glaze ice is the studless snow tire. I ran studless winter tires last year and this time decided to forgo more snow/ice performace for the reduced squirm and better handling.

The problem with the Tirerack test is I don't drive on ice. Most just keep off the road during these events. A more real world test for most drivers would have been to judge their performance in the snow at say 30 degrees and again at 5 or 10 degrees. From my own experiences, the differences between the Performance Winter and the All Season is larger when snow is involved. Neither performs exceptionally on ice. I did find the studless snow tires gave me more traction even in the snow than the performance winter tires.

martyp

You bet. I hardy ever drive on the local hockey rink . Interesting that you have tried studless tires. What's your opinion of dry road operation with those tires? Typically here we get snow, it melts/evaporates quickly, and the roads are dry in a couple of days (this year has been different tho').

CarmG993

My wife runs MS PS A/S all year round on her '05 allroad. Thru all the snow storms we had in the past, never a problem. We actually got about 50k miles out of the last set, and just put a new set on Saturday.
We had a dusting here on Friday and my STI w/ snows thru some spirited driving in our empty parking lot was extremely hard to handle. I contributed it to that there wasn't enough snow on the ground. The 1" dusting just made it slick.

And +1 to what Fast_Freddy says.

Thaddeus

My car is covered with grey ugly slushy ****. It's making me owly.

autobonrun

From your description, the Winter Sports may be a better choice. If I lived in an area where the snow stayed on the roads for a considerable time, I'd go with the full snow tire setup like the Blizzaks I previously used. No doubt they will get you around better. I just did not like the squirm and reduced handling response from the full snow tires when the road was dry.

Just this Saturday we got 7 inches of snow but the temps were in the 30's. By mid day Sunday the main roads and city streets were all clear. There was about a 8 hour period there where I wished I had the snow tires back, but once it's clear again, I still maintain some level of dry performance. Personally, I choose not to go 4 full months with significantly reduced performance when it's dry. I can still have some fun with the Winter Sports.

Just my opinion of course.

fast_freddy

Are my Blizzaks as good as my Pilot Sport Ribs? No way Jose.... But for what they do in the snow and super cold conditions they're really not that bad in the dry. The problem we have here is with black ice and "run off" that freezes, the super soft rubber really does make an enormous difference. The problem withe the super soft rubber is that it wears out really fast when its not insanely cold. I put the snows on in late October with about 50% tread left in the rear. Two weeks ago yesterday when it was 60 degrees out I was detailing the car and noticed the tires were close to being slicks. Up until 10 days ago it has been a very very warm winter which is not so kind to snows...

martyp

No popcorn eating in the peanut gallery! Unless, of course, you've bought a ticket.

martyp

Opinions are always welcome as we all have 'em

I think I'll wait until late summer to get either a set of Blizzaks (25) or Winter Sports (M3). I just bought a set of wheels I want to use with my summer tires and I dont know how much more slope my wife will let me slide down . In the mean time I'll try using my set of Wnter Sport M2 that came with the car - the rear tread is still aways above the wear bars and the fronts are great. We'll see how that works out.