TomF

I always go with my gut on these kind of things. Walking away from a seemingly good deal is hard to do, but if something is "just not quite right" I go with my instincts and bail out. It has never failed me yet.

You will find another car with a seller that is enthusiastic about it as you are.

heath ATL

Thanks for the words of encouragement. More weirdness from the seller this morning -- he sent me the email below telling me that he had the brake fluid changed and I could go ahead with the ppi. Either he is incredibly paranoid or he didn't want the mechanic I selected to look at the brake fluid. FYI - Jim Ellis is one of the porsche dealers in town (I wanted him to take it to Ryland's which came highly recommended on Rennlist and Pelican).

"Hey Heath, I have taken care of the break fluid issue this morning at jim ellis. If your still interested I will take it to your guy to be checked out next week. The reason I wanted to take it to people I trust and have it changed was to find out if there could be a problem like you suggested. I dont trust foreign mechanic shops as they will more than likely imply everything is a major problem and try to over charge. Just my feelings of mechanics I dont know. Anyhow, the brake fluid change is on me. I just want to make sure if you buy the car your happy with it and it as I presented it. I dont want you to think I beat you and thats the feeling I have gotten from the beginning when you wouldn't accept the jim ellis inspection. Taking it to another place, which I have no problem with, is really saying I dont know if I can trust you or jim ellis. Just letting you know my feelings. Either way good luck finding what your looking for"

ed devinney

Bzzzt. Game over, but thanks for playing, Mr Seller.

TheOtherEric

As long as your shop isn't too far from him, he should shut up and do what you want. You'd be nuts to pay a deposit before the car gets inspected.

And in general, when a seller recommends a certain PPI shop, you should go *anywhere* but there, especially if he really pushes for them. Some shops WILL overlook faults for good customers, many of us have seen it, especially when dealers are the seller. But YOU are paying the PPI so you should expect an honest inspection at the shop of your choice (within reason).

Felix

But giving a deposit to a private seller via cash or check before the PPI result is known could mean quite a struggle to get the deposit back if the PPI flags up a flaw and buyer and seller can't agree a revised price.

carcommander

Hmmmm, I probably would not let someone I didn't know take apart my 911. I know the guys at Jim Ellis and they are straight up. (My car is not for sale). I have had many buyers flake out over the years for no reason other than they changed their mind. I don't have a problem with that as long as I have not gone to any trouble. As a buyer I want a PPI without leaving a deposit. As a seller, unless I know the buyer, I am not going to mess with it without a deposit. If something major is wrong, then I would refund it. If he just changes his mind I would not. The deal above does sound screwy but you have not heard the seller's side of things. (I am not the seller)

ceboyd

I must admit that I've had 2 (what I thought were serious) buyers change their mind on my 993 for sale.

I'd have no problem taking my car to a reputable place for a PPI if the interested party paid for it but I had one person insist I pay to get a PPI before they even consider my car (yeah right, no thanks).

I would, however, want to be able to be present while my car gets a PPI.


Heck, I'm funny about letting people even drive my car!

I hate joyride tire kickers (especially with a p-car).

So far my sale attempts have cost me a total of around $100 between gasoline and advertising fees. I expect to have to invest up to $500 for the sale NOT including running my own PPI as just part of cost-of-sale.

I also expect it could take up to a year to sell my beloved 993

TheOtherEric

Seriously guys, any seller who thinks the selling process soooo bothersome can always unload it at a dealer and take the hit. But sell it yourself and you'll have to deal with a few bozos and tirekickers, that's just how it works. This seller should shut up and quit whining about it.

p.s. I like how the seller denounces your lack of trust in him... but it's ok for him to demand a $10k downpayment and lawyer involvement. That's hilarious!

ceboyd

sellers AND Buyers just need to use common sense...


I was able to see pretty quickly the 19 year old who wanted to drive my 993 FS was just there for a joyride while the other party there who showed up in his older 930 was more seriously interested.


I'd rather take the $500 hit on time and advertising myself then bending over and taking what a dealer would offer me for an outright sale...


..BUT I might consider consignment (as long as it isn't as poor a bottom line price as what the dealer would give me)


Private Party sales tend to mean that it takes more time and more effort than trading in... BUT it tends to mean you get more $$ than trading in as well..

I'm not complaining about selling but I would never expect a buyer to leave me a deposit before a PPI either... just that I won't pay for a PPI on a 'maybe I'll be interested in the car if you get a PPI'

As a buyer, I wouldn't want a seller's PPI anyway if I were so concerned about a PPI so why should I pay for one is my thought.


The whole PPI thing is overrated IMHO.

I've walked away from enough deals on used cars being a totally NON mechanic just from things glaringly obvious or being covered up (not necessarily P cars).. and that wanting deposit before PPI would have been a huge warning sign to me!

...now if buyer wants to 'borrow' my car for a weekend to think about it, darn right I'd want some payment up front if I even thought about agreeing to the deal! (which I probably wouldn't anyway)


..a 19 y ear old kid shows up in a beat up VW and wants to go for a drive with his buddy who looks about 15 years old. NO way am I going to let them take my car for a drive.. BUT I still took them for a test drive with me behind the wheel driving.. yes it ate up a few dollars in gasoline but I gave the ride JUST-IN-CASE it was a 'for real' buyer.. but deep down I knew it probably wasnt.... and so it goes...

...and BTW: the 19 year old incident happened the first time I thought about selling my 993 shortly after my divorce when my car was only 2 years old and still valued at close to $55k on resale KBB value so it made the situation that much more obvious to me.....

VNTGSPD

Devil's Advocate here...

The last email looks like the seller is motivated and has perhaps re-considered his position and is looking to complete the deal. Maybe he's not above-board or maybe he's just a little paranoid or ??? After all, we are all a bit strange in one way or another.

If this is the car you want, assuming it is mechanically and structurally sound, then I would pursue the sale with some up front informal written agreement (emails?). Something like: Complete the PPI at your expense at your mechanic. If the PPI is ACCEPTABLE, then the deal would commence within XX days for the sum of XX. If the PPI is NOT ACCEPTABLE, then you would choose to negotiate the needed repairs or choose to forego the sale. If the car is honest, the seller should have no issue with this.

I just completed the purchase of my first 993 last month from a distance. I worked with the seller (who was actually quite helpful) in this way and it worked well. He did a small bit of legwork getting the car to the PPI (10 miles from his house plus half day without car), I absorbed the expense of the inspection. Based on the findings, I chose to discuss shared expenses with him, he chose not lower the price, and I decided to buy anyway. Because we were up front with the plan, and the realization that inspection results could alter the plan, we both knew what to expect.

If he wants to sell and you want to buy, you should be working together to get it done. If I misread his email and he won't put any effort into the sale, then I guess everyone else here is right and you should walk. There will be another.

Good Luck!

MarkD

FWIW, the process I went through on the 993 I just bought had yellow flags popping up numerous times.... Seller was in Greece. Car not registered in his name (he was the lien holder). Resistance to comp/leakdown test. Etc. There were actually valid reason for every "issue". (leakdown test was concern over some unknown mechanic taking car apart for test. I certainly understand that. We found one he was OK with).

I proceeded very cautiously and each and every concern ended up being a a non-issue. I mean, he was legit, car was legit, etc. Long story I won't bore you with.
Point is, it smelled REALLY bad all the way to the end but ended up not being a scam in any way. I kept waiting for the deal to fall apart but reasoned through each obstacle.
He was also a bit quirky to deal with but it worked out.
The way I see it, as long as no money changes hands until you have that title and Bill of Sale, you can run at any time.

pcar964

This guy was obviously shady - To me, even if the car is perfect, I will walk away from a seller I don't trust. Everything has to be right when you're buying a special car like a 993.

ceboyd

o.k. now I am getting concerned about allowing a PPI myself..

in what manner is my car 'taken apart' for a PPI?

I'm not liking the sound of this now

Slow Guy

Really now! A PPI is about $300 give or take, how much "taking apart" do you thik a Porsche mechanic is going to do for $300??

The PPI I had done a few mos. ago included a general look over the car, check all the lights, check for leaks oil/tranny/brakes, make sure the seats/windows work and a leakdown test. They're not going to disassemble the car.

jimwood

Here's my question. If you have PPI done by a reputable shop, doesn't the owner get a copy? Or can't the owner bargain for that? My car had a PPI by a tire kicker, owner passed along that info, I called the shop and talked to the mechanic. Needless to say, done deal. Never saw the paperwork.

For jiminy cricket's sake, how many PPI's are enough. Personally, I wouldn't want 5 leak down tests performed. Moreover, what a waste of time.... So although 10k deposit to an attorney sounds wierd, an owner not wanting a 2nd ppi when one has already been performed seems reasonable if the buyer isn't committed.