Chrisw_05

Just done a seach on the child seatbelt law but didn't get what i was after....anyone in UK or US help please

David / caveman - i was going to ask you this one direct but thought it was worth a thread.....i see you have been on a few booster thread in the past.

I notice from a lot of the archive threads that everyone is asking about which booster seat etc but nobody has asked the following.......because our 993's are 2+2's and not full adult seats in the back, why fit a booster seat when the lap belt fits the child OK as is? I've downloaded the new UK law off the web and can't find anything which relates to sports cars or 2+2 cars.....i mean, have you sat in the back of your 993 for even a short ride....my cheeks hardly touch the seat pad....

surely having a booster seat with lap belts only, which sits the child higher and therefore need to use more lap belt, means the child could slip forward more in an accident than being sat on the normal seat??

more importantly a booster seat would take my kids heads above the backrest height therefore more prone to neck / whiplash injuries if a car hits you from the rear?

I only take my kids out on short trips to shops parks grandparents etc so not sure if this new law is really aimed at this. you can on use the "unexpected trip" excuse so many times before the police start asking questions

by the way i have not been stopped yet…..also my local police station don't have an answer on this.......

Chris W.

Tim993

I have wondered about this topic as well. The only concern I have about not using a booster seat is that seat belt buckle is so long. When my 5 year old is in back, I feel that the lap portion of the seat belt strap is not close enough to her lap.

sidned

I've been after an answer to this very question. My local safety officer sent me the following information:

Some estate cars have rear facing seats in the luggage compartment for use by children, and some 2 + 2 sports cars have small rear seats. Child seats/boosters to the required UN ECE Regulation 44.03 type approval must be used on these seats. However, it may be that such seats are certified to UN ECE 44.04 type approval standards which means that they effectively approved child seats/booster sets themselves and therefore a separate child seat/booster would not be needed. If a seat complies with the type-approval standard, it will have an "E" label, with "44.03" or ".03" and the weight range of the child for which it is designed. You may need to check with the car handbook, or the vehicle manufacturer, whether the seat is so approved.

I have yet to find a booster seat in the UK for less then £100 (the seats from the stealer are a ridiculous price) that will fit in the back of my 993. I'm going to Florida in a couple of weeks and would like to know if there are any seats that are available in the US so I can buy a couple and bring them back.

ASH.PALIN

This is What happens when corporations co habit with government, "lets have legislation which forces people to spend money on stuff they don't need, and we can hide our huge profits behind our concern for their kid's safety..........perfect"
Does nobody in the UK care anymore about our alleged government intrusion into our lives........what the hell is gonig on???!!

dbf73

Darren - the Porsche brand seats are (were?) OEM'd by Britax and I understand there is a Britax labeled variant that will workexcept that it does not have the buckle that disables the passenger seat airbag.

Chrisw_05

I'm glad I’m not the only one then to ask this question!!!!!!!!

Tim - seat belt buckle.....yes i see your point on this but could you swap it out for a smaller one say off a scrap ford? Yes i know it's not Porsche parts but you can always put the originals back in when ever you like?

Darren - good information on the ece regs.....may be worth a shot at contacting Porsche to see what regs /approvals the standard seats pass.

Ash palin......Yes....you do wonder if safety is the main driver for this....how can every car be treated the same....a family estate to a Hummer to a Porsche......it must be the big Jag brigade or city off roaders that think of these laws.

Doug - Not sure were you are going with the passenger air bag bit as it's the rear seats I was on about. let me know if I’m missing something.

Thanks

Chris W.

dbf73

Chris - I just mentioned the front seat air bag buckle thing as the only difference (aside from the upholstery pattern) that distinguishes the Porsche-labeled seat from its Britax equivalent. For rear seat use this is not an issue.

Chrisw_05

OK....BTW i love the yellow.....it was always my intention to get a yellow one as a kid but chickened out when it came to the crunch.....

As a side note i used to work for Britax PMG who are the automotive / electrical division of the Britax international group.....i used to be able to get cheap child seats....but that was when i didn't have kids....DOH...i knew i should of stayed working there just to get half price seats.....although i probably would not have a porsche today as the wages were dismal!!!!

Chris W.

SimonExtreme

From what I understand, this bit of legislation has come about from a pressure group made up of A&E doctors. It seems that there is a high incidence of neck injuries due to small children using regular seat belts, including a disturbing number of torn jugulars.

What I find most suprising about this legislation is people's reaction to it. The data on injuries to young children due to standard seat belts is out there and I would never allow (except in an emergency) my children to go in a car without some device that alters the way a seat belt passses their kneck/shoulder. If they have to, I then get the child to put the cross belt under their arm as this has been shown to be the best comprimise.

I know this is going to start a controversy, but I cannot believe how irresponsible parents are with regard to carrying children in cars. I have seen the results of children not properly strapped in and I do not want to expose my children to the consequences. For years people have acted irresponsibly and therefore it is beholdent on our government to protect those who should be looking for that protection from others.

I really dislike government interference but on this subject, they have got it absolutely right.

Chrisw_05

Agreed on the main comments you make. Your child’s safety is paramount when in a vehicle......however my point is the use of lap belts in a 2+2 car, not the issue of accidents with regard to jugular injuries on 3 point belts.

I think were ASH was coming from was grouping all cars into one law which seems to be unreasonable......the seats in the back of a 993 or for that matter any Porsche are effectively child seats NOT adult size......yes a lap belt is not as good as a 3 point strap but that is what is in our 993's unless you have retro-fitted the third point....which i may do myself if and when i get time.

As a responsible driver i am always concerned about the third party which in the majority of accidents is rear shunts at low speed which, due to experience on my and the wife’s part..twice..give neck injuries.

No argument with you at all on this but I am looking for the right solution for my children NOT trying to get out of them wearing a seat belt.

Not that you are....but when you question people about there safety of there children you will stir up a lot of ill feeling as you are questioning there ability to look after and protect there children.....i am sure this is not what you are aiming at.

Chris W.

ASH.PALIN

hi gents

The trouble with this type of legislation is that it always hammers those that can least afford it, looking at the terms of these new laws, a child must have a booster special car seat up to the age of twelve!!( I thought it was 10 years) that is going to be Expensive a and cumbersome.

For working class families on low income with two kids a £100.00+ car seat is going to be a burden. We all care about the safety of kids and I agree, that you do see alot of un restrained kids in the backs of cars, but the answer is education not enforcement legislation.......it's kinda crazy.

People are always ribbing me about the impracticality of my 993, to which I reply "what are you talking about it's got two built in Kiddy seats!!" Interesting that this is mentioned in the new regulations as below

"Some estate cars have rear facing seats in the luggage compartment for use by children, and some 2 + 2 sports cars or convertibles have small rear seats. Child seats/boosters to the required UN ECE Regulation 44.03 type approval must be used on these seats. However, it may be that such seats are certified to UN ECE 44.03 type approval standards which means that they are in effect type-approved child seats/booster seats themselves and therefore a separate child seat/booster would not be needed. If a seat complies with the type-approval standard, it will have an "E" label, with "44.03" or ".03" and the weight range of the child for which it is designed. You may need to check with the car handbook, or the vehicle manufacturer, whether the seat is so approved."

I just resent the constant intrusion of the EU/Government into our lives since this government has come to power in 96/7 there have been 3072 arrestable offences that have become law since then.................the Police are no longer enforcing the law, they are enforcing the Will of the government, which is often in variance to the will of the people!!

Sorry.......I'll shut up now.........nice kiddie seats in the 993 tho'

SimonExtreme

Sorry, but this is exactly the type of comment that will lead to people doing nothing.

You can buy a perfectly safe booster seat that meets both government rules and my own far higher standard for the princely sum of.........£16.50! If you can afford a car, you can afford a booster seat. Education is also important, as shown by some of the comments on this thread because clearly, the government has failed to make people see why this law is sensible and needed while at the same time, it has led people to believe that the cost of compliance is too high.

Chrisw_05

Simon + all....i have just come off the phone with Porsche car UK Ltd .....very nice girl called elle.....out of 10....i'd give her 1 (old joke but still makes me smile)......anyway the answer is that some of the newer 993 rear seats are complient and some are NOT....

The way to check is based on what SIDNED has already found out.....if the seatbelt itself has E 44.03 or .03 on it then the whole rear seat itself is complient therefore no buster seat is needed. if no label.....then it needs a child seat / booster. hope that clears this up.....result

need to go home and check mine!!!!!!!!!

simon - just in case......£16.50 for a booster that fits the 993 back seat?......please can you let me know were i can get these as all the booster seats i have will not fit.....and i have 4 now as i bought them for the grandparents to run them about in the there car......price aside.....it's just getting one to fit. I could butcher the britax ones i have to make them fit perfectly but that just seems extreme.

Thanks

Chris W.

SimonExtreme

Chris

I have to come clean! The price I quoted is for the Britax booster, as advertised on the net and I didn't know if it fitted a 993. It was really meant in reply to the comment about low income families who, I suspect, aren't driving 993's

From the sounds of it, the basic Britax doesn't fit although I am suprised because while I accept it might not fit into the seat, I would have thought it bridged the side bolsters nicely. However, as my RS doesn't have rear seats, it propably explains why I am talking out of by RS!!!