Be very careful out there....kinda long!!
08-22-2006, 06:06 PM
#31
Don't want to get into the middle of this pissing match but when a hood and bumper are painted the shop will often "blend" the adjacent panels to match. But no fair claiming no paint work.
08-22-2006, 06:10 PM
#32
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I had to see this car...
I just went for a ride and checked out James' Guards Red '98 C2S. Yes the bumper and hood have been resprayed and it appears (do to a run) that the cowl was blended in. The fenders or roof do not appear to have been sprayed, but I am not a professional.
At 5,000+ feet in elevation a NA car is losing at least 20% of its power. James' 993 pulls just as hard as my 993 and other NA 993s I have driven or ridden in at this altitude.
Aside from the paint work (and lots of us respray due to rock chips) someone is going to get a nice car with mods for a fair price.
As always get an independent PPI!!!
Harry - Go see Sloan or Ray for the car you want.
James - Good luck with the sale.
I have no afiliation with either party but the thread peaked my interest and I had to check it out since I was 5 minutes away.
At 5,000+ feet in elevation a NA car is losing at least 20% of its power. James' 993 pulls just as hard as my 993 and other NA 993s I have driven or ridden in at this altitude.
Aside from the paint work (and lots of us respray due to rock chips) someone is going to get a nice car with mods for a fair price.
As always get an independent PPI!!!
Harry - Go see Sloan or Ray for the car you want.
James - Good luck with the sale.
I have no afiliation with either party but the thread peaked my interest and I had to check it out since I was 5 minutes away.
08-22-2006, 08:30 PM
#33
Rennlist Member
Well, obviously this thread was started with a lot of emotion, but I have to comment because of its tone and the dispersions cast on a Rennlist member. Here are some facts for those of you who might dismiss this vehicle from one person's inflammatory assumptions. Please consider the source and make your own judgements. I would buy this car back in a heartbeat. Yes, I am the previous owner.
1. The car unequivocally had NO paint in the 39 months I owned it. it passed my discerning eye during multiple detailings. The paint is very nice
2. James is in my experience an honest person, exhibited many times during our dealings. If he says he didn't paint the car then he did not.
3. The car was originally owned as a daily driver by a very good and known customer of Brumos Porsche in Florida. It had 37K hiway miles when I acquired it, and showed no obvious paintwork. Call them and ask about the car's maintenance history, and look at James' records
4. There was nothing wrong with the car's performance 5K miles ago - it runs perfectly for a 98 993 and was meticulously maintained. Call Performance Imports in Doraville GA or James' well known Porsche specialist. These guys know the car. Dispersions about this cars performance show only this person's immaturity - in general, and with the 993 and its power delivery
5. The car has at least $15K worth of OEM Porsche ugrades painstakingly installed by me. It is rare and unique, and in beautiful condition - a "9 out of 10" is likely still accurate
6. The car has 57K miles on it. It will not look like a museum piece like an RPM sells, but it is a high quality car with a great history and it's a fair price given its equipment and condition
7. IF, and I repeat IF, it has had the bumper and hood painted, it was likely due to rock chips and Florida sand. I can assure you it was not in an accident from my own purchase inspections and ownership time.
If you want a perfect car with perfect paint HMS, you will surely be dissappointed in every used but well taken care of 9 year old 911 you visit. Get out your checkbook and fly to Houston
Please don't throw around unfounded and damaging accusations about Rennlist members' integrity - mistakes sometime happen.
Anyone who wants to know more about this car can call me at 404-238-0684. I repeat that I would buy this car without hesitation - it is an excellent 911 and only one of 1700 or so C2S cars sold (IIRC).
Regards,
1. The car unequivocally had NO paint in the 39 months I owned it. it passed my discerning eye during multiple detailings. The paint is very nice
2. James is in my experience an honest person, exhibited many times during our dealings. If he says he didn't paint the car then he did not.
3. The car was originally owned as a daily driver by a very good and known customer of Brumos Porsche in Florida. It had 37K hiway miles when I acquired it, and showed no obvious paintwork. Call them and ask about the car's maintenance history, and look at James' records
4. There was nothing wrong with the car's performance 5K miles ago - it runs perfectly for a 98 993 and was meticulously maintained. Call Performance Imports in Doraville GA or James' well known Porsche specialist. These guys know the car. Dispersions about this cars performance show only this person's immaturity - in general, and with the 993 and its power delivery
5. The car has at least $15K worth of OEM Porsche ugrades painstakingly installed by me. It is rare and unique, and in beautiful condition - a "9 out of 10" is likely still accurate
6. The car has 57K miles on it. It will not look like a museum piece like an RPM sells, but it is a high quality car with a great history and it's a fair price given its equipment and condition
7. IF, and I repeat IF, it has had the bumper and hood painted, it was likely due to rock chips and Florida sand. I can assure you it was not in an accident from my own purchase inspections and ownership time.
If you want a perfect car with perfect paint HMS, you will surely be dissappointed in every used but well taken care of 9 year old 911 you visit. Get out your checkbook and fly to Houston
Please don't throw around unfounded and damaging accusations about Rennlist members' integrity - mistakes sometime happen.
Anyone who wants to know more about this car can call me at 404-238-0684. I repeat that I would buy this car without hesitation - it is an excellent 911 and only one of 1700 or so C2S cars sold (IIRC).
Regards,
Last edited by Chris C.; 08-22-2006 at 09:37 PM.
08-22-2006, 09:38 PM
#34
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I would like to second just about everything that Chris C of Atlanta has to say about this.
I presented the car to HMS when he called me as a very nice driver. At no time did HMS ask me whether the car was a museum quality car. I told him that I remembered the car is being especially nice looking based on a conversation I had with a friend as we were looking at the car. James' car IS unusually nice looking.
I believe I told HMS that I was sure there was no apparent accident damage but I could not be sure about repainting. I said that if it had been painted, it was done especially well.
HMS's perception of the performance of the car is dead wrong. James' car runs exactly as I expected it to, considering the altitude. There is a big loss in torque up here. It is very noticeable.
I find HMS's posting to be out of line. His standards, likes and dislikes, are his business and I don't have a problem with that. I see no reason to publicly trash James' integrity over what is at worst a misunderstanding.
Chris Cervelli
Premier Motorsports
I presented the car to HMS when he called me as a very nice driver. At no time did HMS ask me whether the car was a museum quality car. I told him that I remembered the car is being especially nice looking based on a conversation I had with a friend as we were looking at the car. James' car IS unusually nice looking.
I believe I told HMS that I was sure there was no apparent accident damage but I could not be sure about repainting. I said that if it had been painted, it was done especially well.
HMS's perception of the performance of the car is dead wrong. James' car runs exactly as I expected it to, considering the altitude. There is a big loss in torque up here. It is very noticeable.
I find HMS's posting to be out of line. His standards, likes and dislikes, are his business and I don't have a problem with that. I see no reason to publicly trash James' integrity over what is at worst a misunderstanding.
Chris Cervelli
Premier Motorsports
08-22-2006, 10:24 PM
#35
Wow, this whole situation is unbelievable. No I don’t own a Porsche, but I am a car enthusiast who has known James and his 993 from the day he flew to Atlanta to look at it.
Since he was getting an independent PPI in Atlanta, I am sure his mind was put at ease for studying the car much further himself. He was told the car had never had any paintwork and he obviously had no reason to question it, the car looks great. This car is about as nice of a “driven” (not museum) example of a 993 that you will find.
HMS makes it out to sound like some sort of Maaco paint job, which is ridiculous. I can honestly vouch for James when he says he has never had any paint work done during his ownership. I have never noticed these paint “flaws” until pointed out by James after HMS came. And I honestly still would never notice them if I didn’t know where they are and at what exact angle to look for them. I also know that one of James’s reasons for selling the car was his interest in starting to go to the track. If he knew it had been re-sprayed I highly doubt he would have worried about ruining the original paint at the track.
It is a shame that James and his car have been dragged through the coals on here when only a few know James or the condition of his car. I am sure the new owner will be very happy.
Since he was getting an independent PPI in Atlanta, I am sure his mind was put at ease for studying the car much further himself. He was told the car had never had any paintwork and he obviously had no reason to question it, the car looks great. This car is about as nice of a “driven” (not museum) example of a 993 that you will find.
HMS makes it out to sound like some sort of Maaco paint job, which is ridiculous. I can honestly vouch for James when he says he has never had any paint work done during his ownership. I have never noticed these paint “flaws” until pointed out by James after HMS came. And I honestly still would never notice them if I didn’t know where they are and at what exact angle to look for them. I also know that one of James’s reasons for selling the car was his interest in starting to go to the track. If he knew it had been re-sprayed I highly doubt he would have worried about ruining the original paint at the track.
It is a shame that James and his car have been dragged through the coals on here when only a few know James or the condition of his car. I am sure the new owner will be very happy.
08-22-2006, 11:31 PM
#36
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Originally Posted by stiff///M
It is a shame that James and his car have been dragged through the coals on here when only a few know James or the condition of his car. I am sure the new owner will be very happy.
08-23-2006, 12:02 PM
#37
Rennlist Member
Originally Posted by Academictech
Interesting, all these related parties who seem to know this car so well and no-one knows or wants to say where that paint come from.
It's very well possible someone bumped it while it was in the shop then it was 'cleaned up' in the paintbooth without the owner's knowledge.
Regardless; this car will most likely go to someone who has enough knowledge of these things to realize that the value is far less due to the paintwork. With that information, depending on the buyer, one person's 'nine' out of ten becomes a respectable 'six' or 'seven' daily driver, especially for the mileage and year.
This thread can become a real whodunit; perhaps we're safe to start the speculation by saying that whoever replaced that windshield with the crack down the middle might also be responsible for that 'extra' paint.
On a more serious note, there are some reliable opinions here (this writer notwithstanding)....and IT IS AN S VERSION 993!.....so the seller needs no luck on the future sale of the car as he was intelligent enough to acquire such a beautiful machine in the first place...he undoubtedly took care of it as he should have. More important, what will the seller replace this with??
It's very well possible someone bumped it while it was in the shop then it was 'cleaned up' in the paintbooth without the owner's knowledge.
Regardless; this car will most likely go to someone who has enough knowledge of these things to realize that the value is far less due to the paintwork. With that information, depending on the buyer, one person's 'nine' out of ten becomes a respectable 'six' or 'seven' daily driver, especially for the mileage and year.
This thread can become a real whodunit; perhaps we're safe to start the speculation by saying that whoever replaced that windshield with the crack down the middle might also be responsible for that 'extra' paint.
On a more serious note, there are some reliable opinions here (this writer notwithstanding)....and IT IS AN S VERSION 993!.....so the seller needs no luck on the future sale of the car as he was intelligent enough to acquire such a beautiful machine in the first place...he undoubtedly took care of it as he should have. More important, what will the seller replace this with??
08-23-2006, 01:32 PM
#38
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There is no dispute that certain parts of the car have been repainted. Are you indicating that the vehicle may have had paintwork before you purchased it?
Originally Posted by Chris C.
1. The car unequivocally had NO paint in the 39 months I owned it. it passed my discerning eye during multiple detailings. The paint is very nice"
2. James is in my experience an honest person, exhibited many times during our dealings. If he says he didn't paint the car then he did not.
3. The car was originally owned as a daily driver by a very good and known customer of Brumos Porsche in Florida. It had 37K hiway miles when I acquired it, and showed no obvious paintwork. Call them and ask about the car's maintenance history, and look at James' records
4. There was nothing wrong with the car's performance 5K miles ago - it runs perfectly for a 98 993 and was meticulously maintained. Call Performance Imports in Doraville GA or James' well known Porsche specialist. These guys know the car. Dispersions about this cars performance show only this person's immaturity - in general, and with the 993 and its power delivery
5. The car has at least $15K worth of OEM Porsche ugrades painstakingly installed by me. It is rare and unique, and in beautiful condition - a "9 out of 10" is likely still accurate
6. The car has 57K miles on it. It will not look like a museum piece like an RPM sells, but it is a high quality car with a great history and it's a fair price given its equipment and condition
7. IF, and I repeat IF, it has had the bumper and hood painted, it was likely due to rock chips and Florida sand. I can assure you it was not in an accident from my own purchase inspections and ownership time.
If you want a perfect car with perfect paint HMS, you will surely be dissappointed in every used but well taken care of 9 year old 911 you visit. Get out your checkbook and fly to Houston
Please don't throw around unfounded and damaging accusations about Rennlist members' integrity - mistakes sometime happen.
Anyone who wants to know more about this car can call me at 404-238-0684. I repeat that I would buy this car without hesitation - it is an excellent 911 and only one of 1700 or so C2S cars sold (IIRC).
Regards,
2. James is in my experience an honest person, exhibited many times during our dealings. If he says he didn't paint the car then he did not.
3. The car was originally owned as a daily driver by a very good and known customer of Brumos Porsche in Florida. It had 37K hiway miles when I acquired it, and showed no obvious paintwork. Call them and ask about the car's maintenance history, and look at James' records
4. There was nothing wrong with the car's performance 5K miles ago - it runs perfectly for a 98 993 and was meticulously maintained. Call Performance Imports in Doraville GA or James' well known Porsche specialist. These guys know the car. Dispersions about this cars performance show only this person's immaturity - in general, and with the 993 and its power delivery
5. The car has at least $15K worth of OEM Porsche ugrades painstakingly installed by me. It is rare and unique, and in beautiful condition - a "9 out of 10" is likely still accurate
6. The car has 57K miles on it. It will not look like a museum piece like an RPM sells, but it is a high quality car with a great history and it's a fair price given its equipment and condition
7. IF, and I repeat IF, it has had the bumper and hood painted, it was likely due to rock chips and Florida sand. I can assure you it was not in an accident from my own purchase inspections and ownership time.
If you want a perfect car with perfect paint HMS, you will surely be dissappointed in every used but well taken care of 9 year old 911 you visit. Get out your checkbook and fly to Houston
Please don't throw around unfounded and damaging accusations about Rennlist members' integrity - mistakes sometime happen.
Anyone who wants to know more about this car can call me at 404-238-0684. I repeat that I would buy this car without hesitation - it is an excellent 911 and only one of 1700 or so C2S cars sold (IIRC).
Regards,
08-23-2006, 02:22 PM
#40
Originally Posted by Greg Fishman
The car could have been painted prior to original delivery when it hit the US port. It wouldn't be the first one that it has happened to.
I think the OP is just venting the same frustration I, and I'm sure many, have felt. Be honest about paintwork and let a buyer adjust his offer (or reject the car) as necessary. If he wants a no paintwork car don't waste his time in the hope that he is not an informed buyer. And it is possible to find such a car without paying RPM prices. As to the performance in high altitude, the OP should have done his homework before commenting on it.
08-23-2006, 02:27 PM
#41
Racer
Thread Starter
Originally Posted by Chris C.
Well, obviously this thread was started with a lot of emotion, but I have to comment because of its tone and the dispersions cast on a Rennlist member. Here are some facts for those of you who might dismiss this vehicle from one person's inflammatory assumptions. Please consider the source and make your own judgements. I would buy this car back in a heartbeat. Yes, I am the previous owner.
1. The car unequivocally had NO paint in the 39 months I owned it. it passed my discerning eye during multiple detailings. The paint is very nice
2. James is in my experience an honest person, exhibited many times during our dealings. If he says he didn't paint the car then he did not.
3. The car was originally owned as a daily driver by a very good and known customer of Brumos Porsche in Florida. It had 37K hiway miles when I acquired it, and showed no obvious paintwork. Call them and ask about the car's maintenance history, and look at James' records
4. There was nothing wrong with the car's performance 5K miles ago - it runs perfectly for a 98 993 and was meticulously maintained. Call Performance Imports in Doraville GA or James' well known Porsche specialist. These guys know the car. Dispersions about this cars performance show only this person's immaturity - in general, and with the 993 and its power delivery
5. The car has at least $15K worth of OEM Porsche ugrades painstakingly installed by me. It is rare and unique, and in beautiful condition - a "9 out of 10" is likely still accurate
6. The car has 57K miles on it. It will not look like a museum piece like an RPM sells, but it is a high quality car with a great history and it's a fair price given its equipment and condition
7. IF, and I repeat IF, it has had the bumper and hood painted, it was likely due to rock chips and Florida sand. I can assure you it was not in an accident from my own purchase inspections and ownership time.
If you want a perfect car with perfect paint HMS, you will surely be dissappointed in every used but well taken care of 9 year old 911 you visit. Get out your checkbook and fly to Houston
Please don't throw around unfounded and damaging accusations about Rennlist members' integrity - mistakes sometime happen.
Anyone who wants to know more about this car can call me at 404-238-0684. I repeat that I would buy this car without hesitation - it is an excellent 911 and only one of 1700 or so C2S cars sold (IIRC).
Regards,
1. The car unequivocally had NO paint in the 39 months I owned it. it passed my discerning eye during multiple detailings. The paint is very nice
2. James is in my experience an honest person, exhibited many times during our dealings. If he says he didn't paint the car then he did not.
3. The car was originally owned as a daily driver by a very good and known customer of Brumos Porsche in Florida. It had 37K hiway miles when I acquired it, and showed no obvious paintwork. Call them and ask about the car's maintenance history, and look at James' records
4. There was nothing wrong with the car's performance 5K miles ago - it runs perfectly for a 98 993 and was meticulously maintained. Call Performance Imports in Doraville GA or James' well known Porsche specialist. These guys know the car. Dispersions about this cars performance show only this person's immaturity - in general, and with the 993 and its power delivery
5. The car has at least $15K worth of OEM Porsche ugrades painstakingly installed by me. It is rare and unique, and in beautiful condition - a "9 out of 10" is likely still accurate
6. The car has 57K miles on it. It will not look like a museum piece like an RPM sells, but it is a high quality car with a great history and it's a fair price given its equipment and condition
7. IF, and I repeat IF, it has had the bumper and hood painted, it was likely due to rock chips and Florida sand. I can assure you it was not in an accident from my own purchase inspections and ownership time.
If you want a perfect car with perfect paint HMS, you will surely be dissappointed in every used but well taken care of 9 year old 911 you visit. Get out your checkbook and fly to Houston
Please don't throw around unfounded and damaging accusations about Rennlist members' integrity - mistakes sometime happen.
Anyone who wants to know more about this car can call me at 404-238-0684. I repeat that I would buy this car without hesitation - it is an excellent 911 and only one of 1700 or so C2S cars sold (IIRC).
Regards,
1) Like I stated in my post..I believe you that the car was not painted while you owned it.
2) Well someone did and I think he admits it now.
3) The car did have a good maintenance history and yes I again belive you that it did not have any paint work before you bought it.
4) James told me the car's performance is not where it should be because of the altitude in Denver. Regardless, it was lacking to say the least.
5) "9 out of 10" is a little optimistic Chris.
6) I was not looking for a museum piece. All I wanted to know is if it had any paintwork. Are only museum pieces the ones without paintwork?
7) I think James has admitted now that the hood and bumper was painted.
Look Chris, I took a loan from the bank, a day off work, credit hits, flight tickets and time to see James' car. I must have asked a dozen times about paintwork and he said none. I asked you and you said none. I asked the mechanic and he said none. So I trusted and got on a plane and within thirty seconds saw the fish eyes (at least 3) on the hood. The bumper with overspray. The orange peel on the right front fender that did not match the rest of the car. The paint under the windshield seal that was marred because they put the windshield seal back on before the paint had fully dryed. All this after just ten or so minutes looking at the car. Mind you, I am not a body guy and only know what I know from detailing my own cars and owning a few that had paintwork also. I didn't even bring up the issue of the cracked windshield.
"Please don't throw around unfounded and damaging accusations about Rennlist members' integrity - mistakes sometime happen."
I too am rennlist member and I don't think my statements were unfounded. My purpose was to share the incident and how it affected me. All I was asking for was some truth.....was that too much to ask for?
