Another Ducktailed 993
Thread Starter
Rennlist Member
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 1,310
Likes: 177
From: Bethlehem, GA
Thanks for all the kind words, guys...and the suggestions as well. Lindsey Fuchs would look great, but I'm not sure they will work on a NB 993. If I had a set of those, I'd try the RS side stripes like Matt did on his 993. They look great on his car with the black centered Techarts. I did attempt to replicate the graphic on the '73 RS tail, but mine says "Carrera 3.6", with the 3.6 part in outlined numbers.
I considered the RS splitters, but the car is so low, I was afraid they would scrape on driveway inclines, even with the Gert FPB. As it was, I had to get part of my driveway reconfigured so the nose wouldn't scrape.
Oliver - I think the aerodynamics are unaffected as compared to the original moveable spoiler. I read somewhere that the lift values were almost identical. My brother and I took a 400 mile road trip yesterday to check out a friend's Gulf Blue '88 Club Sport (pic attached by request!), and the car was very stable, even in some strong crosswinds that were rocking 18-wheelers.
One of the reasons I changed to a fixed spoiler was because the moveable spoiler was very annoying (to me) in intown driving. Constantly up and down, up and down. Plus, being an old school kind of guy, I always liked the '73-74 Carrera look.
I considered the RS splitters, but the car is so low, I was afraid they would scrape on driveway inclines, even with the Gert FPB. As it was, I had to get part of my driveway reconfigured so the nose wouldn't scrape.
Oliver - I think the aerodynamics are unaffected as compared to the original moveable spoiler. I read somewhere that the lift values were almost identical. My brother and I took a 400 mile road trip yesterday to check out a friend's Gulf Blue '88 Club Sport (pic attached by request!), and the car was very stable, even in some strong crosswinds that were rocking 18-wheelers.
One of the reasons I changed to a fixed spoiler was because the moveable spoiler was very annoying (to me) in intown driving. Constantly up and down, up and down. Plus, being an old school kind of guy, I always liked the '73-74 Carrera look.
Intermediate
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 36
Likes: 0
From: Yorkshire, England
Jack
Many thanks for the info. It really does look soooo good! I may well have to invest, although it'll probably be when I get the paint re-finished and after it's had a trip to the ninemeister!
Regards
Many thanks for the info. It really does look soooo good! I may well have to invest, although it'll probably be when I get the paint re-finished and after it's had a trip to the ninemeister!
Regards
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Joined: May 2001
Posts: 9,662
Likes: 557
From: Solana Beach, CA
What about lift/downforce?
Does the duck tail provide any anti-lift characteristics in contrast to the stock moveable tail? If it does, wouldn't you want to have some sort of front splitters to match it, thereby preserving the front to rear aerodynamic balance of the car? I would!
Of course if car speeds never exceed 120 kph it probably wouldn't really matter.
Of course if car speeds never exceed 120 kph it probably wouldn't really matter.
Three Wheelin'
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 1,983
Likes: 22
From: Westlake Village, CA
Does the tail afford you the added air-flow to the fan as with cars fitted with snorkels, RS tails, or when the stock spoiler w/wall is deployed? Not sure how effective the RS tail is at bringing added air into the engine compartment for that matter.
Thread Starter
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Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 1,310
Likes: 177
From: Bethlehem, GA
Martin,
My thorough and exhaustive research indicated that the lift values for the ducktail (Clr=0.062) and deployed moveable tail are almost identical. Therefore, front splitters are not needed and might actually upset the front/rear aero balance.
My butt tells me that the car is very stable at 100+ mph. I actually can't tell any subjective aerodynamic difference between the two spoilers. I almost never drive that fast anyway.
If it was a track or DE car (it isn't), I'd probably add the splitters, but I need the extra road clearance I have now. Plus, I just prefer the cleaner "splitterless" look. Had I installed a 993RS tail as I originally intended, I definitely would have used the splitters. The RS tail provides substantially more downforce than the ducktail, which actually provides no downforce at all...it just reduces lift.
Re: cooling/air flow to the engine, the ducktail creates a high pressure area above the engine grille that theoretically forces additional air into the grille area. The ducktail requires the use of a SC/Carrera 3.2 grille which is a bit more "open" than the stock 993 grille. On our 400 mile trip from Atlanta to Knoxville and back yesterday, my temp gauge was as low or lower than I've ever seen it, and it was 95 degrees outside.
I'm not sure if the RS tail creates as much of a high pressure area at the grille since it is more horizontal than the duck, but evidently there is some pressure because of the special upward facing air cleaner snorkel (available from Gert) that goes with the RS tail.
My thorough and exhaustive research indicated that the lift values for the ducktail (Clr=0.062) and deployed moveable tail are almost identical. Therefore, front splitters are not needed and might actually upset the front/rear aero balance.
My butt tells me that the car is very stable at 100+ mph. I actually can't tell any subjective aerodynamic difference between the two spoilers. I almost never drive that fast anyway.
If it was a track or DE car (it isn't), I'd probably add the splitters, but I need the extra road clearance I have now. Plus, I just prefer the cleaner "splitterless" look. Had I installed a 993RS tail as I originally intended, I definitely would have used the splitters. The RS tail provides substantially more downforce than the ducktail, which actually provides no downforce at all...it just reduces lift.
Re: cooling/air flow to the engine, the ducktail creates a high pressure area above the engine grille that theoretically forces additional air into the grille area. The ducktail requires the use of a SC/Carrera 3.2 grille which is a bit more "open" than the stock 993 grille. On our 400 mile trip from Atlanta to Knoxville and back yesterday, my temp gauge was as low or lower than I've ever seen it, and it was 95 degrees outside.
I'm not sure if the RS tail creates as much of a high pressure area at the grille since it is more horizontal than the duck, but evidently there is some pressure because of the special upward facing air cleaner snorkel (available from Gert) that goes with the RS tail.
Last edited by jackb911; Aug 10, 2006 at 01:51 PM.
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Joined: May 2001
Posts: 9,662
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From: Solana Beach, CA
Jack B. writes, “My thorough and exhaustive research indicated that the lift values for the ducktail (Clr=0.062) and deployed moveable tail are almost identical.” I agree 100%...they are about the same…this is the reason I went to the 993 RS aero setup. According to Porsche, it minimizes lift on the rear to 0, yes that is 0 Lbs at 170 mph. Front lift is about 40 Lbs. With the pre-964 cars, lift at terminal velocity could be as high as 400 Lbs…this info is out of Frere’s book, The 911 Story.
If you want down force on a 993, you need the 993RS Club Sport package. It will provide up to 160 Lbs of down force to the rear with 9 degrees of down angle on the moveable wing. The front doesn’t receive much in the way of down force with this set up…but once again lift is reduced to about 40 Lbs…I have all the actual Porsche technical data in a filing cabinet which is in a moving van.
Jack B. adds, “Re: cooling/air flow to the engine, the ducktail creates a high pressure area above the engine grille that theoretically forces additional air into the grille area. The ducktail requires the use of a SC/Carrera 3.2 grille which is a bit more "open" than the stock 993 grille. On our 400 mile trip from Atlanta to Knoxville and back yesterday, my temp gauge was as low or lower than I've ever seen it, and it was 95 degrees outside.”
This is great news…what is better than a set up that actually works!
If you want down force on a 993, you need the 993RS Club Sport package. It will provide up to 160 Lbs of down force to the rear with 9 degrees of down angle on the moveable wing. The front doesn’t receive much in the way of down force with this set up…but once again lift is reduced to about 40 Lbs…I have all the actual Porsche technical data in a filing cabinet which is in a moving van.
Jack B. adds, “Re: cooling/air flow to the engine, the ducktail creates a high pressure area above the engine grille that theoretically forces additional air into the grille area. The ducktail requires the use of a SC/Carrera 3.2 grille which is a bit more "open" than the stock 993 grille. On our 400 mile trip from Atlanta to Knoxville and back yesterday, my temp gauge was as low or lower than I've ever seen it, and it was 95 degrees outside.”
This is great news…what is better than a set up that actually works!
Rennlist Member
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 9,662
Likes: 557
From: Solana Beach, CA
Quack, quack....Aflak, Aflak...those insurance commercials with Gilbert Gottfried as the Duck!!! The commercials are reported to be some of the most effective commercials ever made...Aflak!!!
I don't work for Aflak...or whatever their name is...
I don't work for Aflak...or whatever their name is...
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Joined: Apr 2004
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From: Reno, NV
Love it! That's a great look on the 993, and definitely a fun mod I have on my list now. Thanks for sharing the pics! Very very cool! Can you tell I'm excited?!?! Love it, absolutely love it!