993 Oil Recommendation
05-18-2006, 03:40 PM
#16
It’s definitely still being offered – extended performance with a gold cap –
http://www.mobil1.com/USA-English/Mo...ce_15W-50.aspx
I would check at different auto parts store.
Tex, for hot Houston summers I would go with 15w50 for 993. Next time, when they drain 0w40 just take a look at it, it looks more like black water than oil.
Regards
Alex
http://www.mobil1.com/USA-English/Mo...ce_15W-50.aspx
I would check at different auto parts store.
Tex, for hot Houston summers I would go with 15w50 for 993. Next time, when they drain 0w40 just take a look at it, it looks more like black water than oil.
Regards
Alex
05-18-2006, 03:57 PM
#17
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i wouldn't use 0w40 in my 993... I'd rather go to redline 15w50 if I can't get mobil 1 any more.. until then, I'm happy with 15w50 mobil 1 ...i do, however, have no issue using the 0w40 in my boxster (which is only a street car)
05-18-2006, 11:35 PM
#18
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I recently had my oil changed, and the shop put in 0-40. I have been a little worried that perhaps it should have been 15-50, as I track the car. I was referred to this column on the PCA website. Now I am not sure what to run.
Joel Reiser - PCA WebSite - 11/10/2005:
I refer you to Porsche Technical Service Bulletin #1701, dated May 23, 2003. Mobil1 15-50 is no longer approved at all, while 0-40 is approved, along with others, all the way back to 1973 for all Porsche models. They specifically list the 993 in this, along with the 964, 930, 911, 914, 928, 924, 944, and 968, including pain, S, S4 and Turbo variants.
While its true that the engine internals love 15-50, the problem is that the hydraulic valve lifters do not. The engine internals also love 0-40 though, less resistance is more power.
Porsche did not make much if any mention of this when the cars were new, but shortly after they went on a campaign to move everyone to 0-40. Many independent shops don't like that, because you can get 15-50 anywhere, but 0-40 is harder to get when you need it, it costs more, and it does not come in 5 quart bottles. I resisted as well, until I finally called Mobil directly, and got hooked up with the regional distributor.
I don't see a fundamental difference between air cooled and water cooled here. The real driver of moving away from 15-50 in street cars was in 1995 when the 993 came along with hydraulic lifters. The issue is that the more modern the engine technology gets, the more they want the lighter weight oil, since they are using it as a hydraulic fluid now, not just as an engine lubricant. This is true a little more so in the 996 because of the VarioCam system, built on the same assumption. Porsche implies that 15-50 is not approved unless you live in a truly hot climate, but they do not specifically say it is approved any more.
I would not run 15-50 in any 993 that has the stock (street non-racing) hydraulic lifters unless you lived in Arizona or somewhere like that. Living in Chicago as you do, the lifters will not pressurize under certain conditions when cold with 15-50. That will make a hell of a racket, and your engine will not run right. It will be down on power, at best, and have excess wear in the area of the rockers.
For cars that were converted to mechanical rockers (964 rockers in a 993 race car), run only in warm weather, I personally think 15-50 is fine, perhaps preferred. However note that they run 0-40 in the Michelin SuperCup, and 0-20 in F1. The trend in the industry at the front is toward the lighter oils.
Joel Reiser - PCA WebSite - 11/10/2005:
I refer you to Porsche Technical Service Bulletin #1701, dated May 23, 2003. Mobil1 15-50 is no longer approved at all, while 0-40 is approved, along with others, all the way back to 1973 for all Porsche models. They specifically list the 993 in this, along with the 964, 930, 911, 914, 928, 924, 944, and 968, including pain, S, S4 and Turbo variants.
While its true that the engine internals love 15-50, the problem is that the hydraulic valve lifters do not. The engine internals also love 0-40 though, less resistance is more power.
Porsche did not make much if any mention of this when the cars were new, but shortly after they went on a campaign to move everyone to 0-40. Many independent shops don't like that, because you can get 15-50 anywhere, but 0-40 is harder to get when you need it, it costs more, and it does not come in 5 quart bottles. I resisted as well, until I finally called Mobil directly, and got hooked up with the regional distributor.
I don't see a fundamental difference between air cooled and water cooled here. The real driver of moving away from 15-50 in street cars was in 1995 when the 993 came along with hydraulic lifters. The issue is that the more modern the engine technology gets, the more they want the lighter weight oil, since they are using it as a hydraulic fluid now, not just as an engine lubricant. This is true a little more so in the 996 because of the VarioCam system, built on the same assumption. Porsche implies that 15-50 is not approved unless you live in a truly hot climate, but they do not specifically say it is approved any more.
I would not run 15-50 in any 993 that has the stock (street non-racing) hydraulic lifters unless you lived in Arizona or somewhere like that. Living in Chicago as you do, the lifters will not pressurize under certain conditions when cold with 15-50. That will make a hell of a racket, and your engine will not run right. It will be down on power, at best, and have excess wear in the area of the rockers.
For cars that were converted to mechanical rockers (964 rockers in a 993 race car), run only in warm weather, I personally think 15-50 is fine, perhaps preferred. However note that they run 0-40 in the Michelin SuperCup, and 0-20 in F1. The trend in the industry at the front is toward the lighter oils.
05-19-2006, 12:11 AM
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"For cars that were converted to mechanical rockers (964 rockers in a 993 race car), run only in warm weather, I personally think 15-50 is fine, perhaps preferred."
Makes perfect sense to me!
Makes perfect sense to me!
05-19-2006, 12:28 AM
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considering I'm at DEs and NEVER drive or start the car in winter, I'm perfectly happy with 15w50 and never noticed any issues except on those colder mornings early in the season when its only 40 degrees out BUT it all warms up quickly enough to not be much of a concern IMHO
05-19-2006, 02:44 AM
#21
f1 cars run 0-20?? I thought you need the higher 2nd number for the hotter temps??
on a sidenote has anyone tried 10w-60? BMW M cars and the Enzo use this grade and although it's pricey I've heard it's good stuff.
on a sidenote has anyone tried 10w-60? BMW M cars and the Enzo use this grade and although it's pricey I've heard it's good stuff.
05-19-2006, 08:31 AM
#22
I've been running 0-40W for about 8 years. Been fine for me in NE, especially since car can sit for a week or more and believe quick start up lubrication is more important than high end number for my driving.
05-19-2006, 11:43 AM
#23
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Originally Posted by David 23
I recently had my oil changed, and the shop put in 0-40. I have been a little worried that perhaps it should have been 15-50, as I track the car. I was referred to this column on the PCA website. Now I am not sure what to run.
Joel Reiser - PCA WebSite - 11/10/2005:
I refer you to Porsche Technical Service Bulletin #1701, dated May 23, 2003. Mobil1 15-50 is no longer approved at all, while 0-40 is approved, along with others, all the way back to 1973 for all Porsche models. They specifically list the 993 in this, along with the 964, 930, 911, 914, 928, 924, 944, and 968, including pain, S, S4 and Turbo variants.
While its true that the engine internals love 15-50, the problem is that the hydraulic valve lifters do not. The engine internals also love 0-40 though, less resistance is more power.
Porsche did not make much if any mention of this when the cars were new, but shortly after they went on a campaign to move everyone to 0-40. Many independent shops don't like that, because you can get 15-50 anywhere, but 0-40 is harder to get when you need it, it costs more, and it does not come in 5 quart bottles. I resisted as well, until I finally called Mobil directly, and got hooked up with the regional distributor.
I don't see a fundamental difference between air cooled and water cooled here. The real driver of moving away from 15-50 in street cars was in 1995 when the 993 came along with hydraulic lifters. The issue is that the more modern the engine technology gets, the more they want the lighter weight oil, since they are using it as a hydraulic fluid now, not just as an engine lubricant. This is true a little more so in the 996 because of the VarioCam system, built on the same assumption. Porsche implies that 15-50 is not approved unless you live in a truly hot climate, but they do not specifically say it is approved any more.
I would not run 15-50 in any 993 that has the stock (street non-racing) hydraulic lifters unless you lived in Arizona or somewhere like that. Living in Chicago as you do, the lifters will not pressurize under certain conditions when cold with 15-50. That will make a hell of a racket, and your engine will not run right. It will be down on power, at best, and have excess wear in the area of the rockers.
For cars that were converted to mechanical rockers (964 rockers in a 993 race car), run only in warm weather, I personally think 15-50 is fine, perhaps preferred. However note that they run 0-40 in the Michelin SuperCup, and 0-20 in F1. The trend in the industry at the front is toward the lighter oils.
Joel Reiser - PCA WebSite - 11/10/2005:
I refer you to Porsche Technical Service Bulletin #1701, dated May 23, 2003. Mobil1 15-50 is no longer approved at all, while 0-40 is approved, along with others, all the way back to 1973 for all Porsche models. They specifically list the 993 in this, along with the 964, 930, 911, 914, 928, 924, 944, and 968, including pain, S, S4 and Turbo variants.
While its true that the engine internals love 15-50, the problem is that the hydraulic valve lifters do not. The engine internals also love 0-40 though, less resistance is more power.
Porsche did not make much if any mention of this when the cars were new, but shortly after they went on a campaign to move everyone to 0-40. Many independent shops don't like that, because you can get 15-50 anywhere, but 0-40 is harder to get when you need it, it costs more, and it does not come in 5 quart bottles. I resisted as well, until I finally called Mobil directly, and got hooked up with the regional distributor.
I don't see a fundamental difference between air cooled and water cooled here. The real driver of moving away from 15-50 in street cars was in 1995 when the 993 came along with hydraulic lifters. The issue is that the more modern the engine technology gets, the more they want the lighter weight oil, since they are using it as a hydraulic fluid now, not just as an engine lubricant. This is true a little more so in the 996 because of the VarioCam system, built on the same assumption. Porsche implies that 15-50 is not approved unless you live in a truly hot climate, but they do not specifically say it is approved any more.
I would not run 15-50 in any 993 that has the stock (street non-racing) hydraulic lifters unless you lived in Arizona or somewhere like that. Living in Chicago as you do, the lifters will not pressurize under certain conditions when cold with 15-50. That will make a hell of a racket, and your engine will not run right. It will be down on power, at best, and have excess wear in the area of the rockers.
For cars that were converted to mechanical rockers (964 rockers in a 993 race car), run only in warm weather, I personally think 15-50 is fine, perhaps preferred. However note that they run 0-40 in the Michelin SuperCup, and 0-20 in F1. The trend in the industry at the front is toward the lighter oils.
It is not necessarily wise to compare with pro race teams and use what they use with the logic that "if it's good enough for them...." Pro race is all about making the absolute most power with "longevity" defined as crossing the finish line. If it's built to last longer, it ain't fast enough. And heavier oil a deficit to making power. Not to mention that these cars operate under very controlled conditions: narrow rpm band, narrow temp band, exactly one cold start.... Compare these conditions to us stop-and-go drivers, starting/stopping the car multiple times/day, across the US in varying climates and from season to season, then changing our oil at the "ghastly" interval of 5 or 6K miles.
If we're going to compare to "race," then amature is more accurate since they don't have the deep pockets, and they actually expect their engines to last at least an entire season. Still, that's a different world since even amature race have budgets that expect rebuilds ...do any of us here do that for our street cars?
Correct me if I'm wrong, but we need an oil that suits OUR needs, not one that F1, Penske, Honda, or whomever uses. Thus, to generalize that Porsche air and water-cooled engines, designed over 5 years apart, with totally different temperature and metal-expansion characteristics, and across the US' varying climates should all use a lighter oil is, IMHO, hogwash.
The "trend" in engines is in ligher oil because of fuel economy. consequently, newly designed mechanicals have this parameter designed in ...not true for our engine that was designed long before this trend, and not true of an air/oil cooled engine whose operating temps vary much more than a water-cooled engine's narrow band of operating temp (ever notice the coolant temp needle on your typical car never moves once it's warm ...is it the same for our cars??).
And on the hydraulic valve adjusters, true they need an oil viscosity that allows flow in their tiny orifices at cold start ...which is why recommending any one-size-fits-all oil weight makes no sense. 15w synth will flow just fine in our south-west's climate thank you, even in our frigid 50 degree winters! Should you NE or MW foks do the same? ...choose according to your conditions. I, for one, would never think of putting an 0W/30 or 40 in an aircooled flat six that sees 100+ degree ambient temps, then sits in traffic.
Porsche's recommendation for a single weight oil is, (and I have no proof of this, just my economics in my head working), a function of a car company catering to its current line of engines, thus reducing it's inventory in oil, and simplifying it's entire base, not to mention fewer things to "think about" for those service techs as they get trained ...heck, just recommend one oil, the Porsche gods said so.
Anyway, just thought I'd chime in on this. Take it or leave it as it is, ultimately, your car. Have fun, all!
Edward
05-19-2006, 12:30 PM
#24
Race Car
How long has 15-50 been available? When I was younger, the norm was alway 10-30. Why so high a low end? The 15 has nothing to do with the high temp properties, right? Basically in high temp discussions, you should compare the 40 with the 50.
05-19-2006, 01:15 PM
#25
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Hi texas,
An oil's viscosity "pour weight," if you will, has a significant role in that the oil film is the sole barrier between metal to metal . Too thick or too thin is bad, depending on how the engine is designed. And when I was younger, it was either 10w/40 or 20w/50 ...both were pretty much the "norm," depending on whether it was newer or older car. So while I have no idea when 15 weight became commonplace, it was by no means a departure from what was commonly found in every pep boys, kragen, or dealership across the country.
Edward
An oil's viscosity "pour weight," if you will, has a significant role in that the oil film is the sole barrier between metal to metal . Too thick or too thin is bad, depending on how the engine is designed. And when I was younger, it was either 10w/40 or 20w/50 ...both were pretty much the "norm," depending on whether it was newer or older car. So while I have no idea when 15 weight became commonplace, it was by no means a departure from what was commonly found in every pep boys, kragen, or dealership across the country.
Edward
05-19-2006, 03:00 PM
#27
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Called my closest P-Shop and for an oil change they quoted
"Oil change with filters is 2 hrs labour @ 117.00 / hr + oil and filters
of course.
The part #'s you have provided have been superceeded... 99310720302 is
now ending in 03 and is $29.70, 99320720101 is now ending in 02 and is
$29.68" + $15 shipping
"Oil change with filters is 2 hrs labour @ 117.00 / hr + oil and filters
of course.
The part #'s you have provided have been superceeded... 99310720302 is
now ending in 03 and is $29.70, 99320720101 is now ending in 02 and is
$29.68" + $15 shipping
05-19-2006, 04:51 PM
#29
The current factory rec is M1 0w/40 for all cars including 993.
I use whoever's synthetic is cheapest at the time 15w/40 street and M1 15w/50 track.
0w/40 in the Audi(because of winter starts)
I use whoever's synthetic is cheapest at the time 15w/40 street and M1 15w/50 track.
0w/40 in the Audi(because of winter starts)
05-19-2006, 06:48 PM
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i know then when I bought my car (I'm the original owner of my 993) I was told to ONLY use 15w50 (from the factory)... then when the 996 came out, suddenly Porsche started to say 0w40 was the oil to use.. I think a lot has to do with the fact that the dealerships don't want to carry multiple grades of oil IMHO and just use 0w40 for all porsche cars... but I could be wrong...
If I drove my 993 year round, I'd switch to 5w30 in winter use and back to 15w50 for summer but since I don't drive in winter, it's a moot point for me.
If I lived in the SW (like Phoenix).. I'd continue to use ONLY 15w50 year round
If I drove my 993 year round, I'd switch to 5w30 in winter use and back to 15w50 for summer but since I don't drive in winter, it's a moot point for me.
If I lived in the SW (like Phoenix).. I'd continue to use ONLY 15w50 year round