AOW162435

Eric,
You are absolutely right. Many, many discussions have happened on Rennlist covering this topic. It's not as if the 911 front end is a flexy design. Any well-designed bar should do the job - keeping the towers from spreading while under severe cornering loads.

Andreas

chris walrod

The best strut braces are those that do not use spherical bearings at either attachment points. The RUF brace is the only one that I know of, along with the one-piece GT2 brace.

If your looking to eliminate tower sway, why not do it in all directions

Edward

Hi Jim,

I will offer a contrary opinion: get a brace if you want one, but it makes no difference on the street. Note I said "no" difference; not "little." I mean none. I can't speak for a cab, but for the 993 coupe, I could not tell whether there was a strut brace or not (yes, I had one ...the Porsche unit. Very light and nice, but pricey). But unless you track the car, this is money you won't feel, honestly. It looks and "sounds" cool having one, but you are not going to improve the handling of the car on public roads, even aggressive canyon carving ...IMHO anyway. Where the brace is a tangible benefit is on the track, and with R-Compunds to boot. Otherwise, even on the track, your (street) tires are sliding and all those rubber bushings are deflecting LONG before and chassis stiffener is coming into play. Think about the physics of a brace: it stiffens a flexing chassis; but what if it's flexing beforehand (as it will be with all that OE rubber in the suspension points. I've found (after spending the money and time) that one is better off spending money on the suspension and tires. And on DEs, of course, to develop and hone skills. But the brace ...save it for when you get more serious, gotten lots of track time, AND have already gone to R-Compounds. BTW, sorry if I've made a faulty presumption: if you already are an accomplished driver with loads of seat time, disregard everything I've said.
And of course, all the above IMHO.

Edward

Jastx

Edward, I have to disagree. Perhaps I'm just more sensitive to little movements of the body when you go over bumps, but I could feel small shakes or flexes with my 993, despite the claimed rigidity of the chassis. I felt having the brace couldn't hurt, could help and was inexpensive enough to try (I happened to use a KLA). It did make a difference. My car didn't creak like some other have mentioned but adding the strut definitely quieted the small flexes I could previously feel.

For me it was a positive enhancement. Extra rigidity was a good thing. I'm planning on adding the Rennline 3-Point brace to my current 930.

InTheAir

I can say that for no other reason, the strut brace cured two squeeks that were driving me nuts.

Joe S.

If only I could find one...

Joe S.

Scott, how did the fittment of your GT2 bar work out?

Scott 1996 993c2

Hey Joe -

The Fabspeed GT2 replica bar fit on the car just fine. I've yet to check it since installing it to see if it has "slid" out of place at all on the side with the elongated holes. I was very careful not to over-torque the nuts despite the temptation with the non-round holes on one side of the bar. This is the main reason Gert stopped selling these replicas IIRC. I don't know . . the jury is still sort of "out" for me. I will have to check it out now . . . after yesterday's Malibu canyon run. If I end up not happy . . . I will most likely get the RUF bar. I wish I could find an original GT2 bar (not very likely) . . . or that Gert could get the replicas made again without the elongated holes. However, it seems to me that with perfectly round holes . . . it might be tough to fit this bar . . . as all of our cars would seem to be slightly different . . . especially after many years on the road and lots of miles. Seems as though a mm or so discrepancy . . . and the bar would not install. Maybe it was easier to "fit" a 1-piece, solid bar to the GT2 when they were still at the factory??? Maybe Gert can chime in here on his experiences with fitting his replicas when they were available . . . which apparently did not have the elongated holes up until right when he stopped offering them. FWIW . . . my cab definitely seems tighter and I notice no squeaks at all with the bar and new suspension.

Scott

Joe S.

Thanks Scott!

I had emailed Gert to see if he had any updates on getting some GT2 bar, but I hadn't heard anything back yet.

It will be interesting to see if your bar moved at all in the holes. If you get a chance can you post some pictues of it installed?

Thanks!

Flying Finn

I have no experience on this unit but, if the holes are elongated, I don't think it will hold the forces chassis flexing has.

Those two nuts with so little torque can not have enough grip to hold, no way.

Scott 1996 993c2

Thanks for your input . . . that's what I'm thinking too Finn . . . Anyone else have an opinion on this . . . or experience with the Fabspeed unit?? Calling Gert . . . any opinion here?

Scott

Edward

Jeff,
You've got a cab, right? Check my comments

John,
Added stiffnes in the chassis can only be a plus. But whether that's "felt" on a street car with all that compliant, mass-marketed-street-grade rubber interfacing betwen the numerous suspension points of a car's suspension, AND being driven on the street makes me believe the additional rigidity a strut-tower brace adds is all but invisible when the rest of the system is flexing (and flexing as designed, may I add). But we can still disagree.

My point is that the suspension is a sytem of components; we know this when someone asks whether they can just change the springs to lower their car, and we all answer in unison, "gotta do the shocks too." That is the correct answer because components work to gether to accomplish a stated goal. Any reduction of compliance in one area will only transfer load to reveal deficits in another area. So while some modifications are more clearly noticible, it is only because they may have fulfill a larger share of the suspension's responsibilities. Take a shock/spring change, for example. This is a noticible change (improvement or degradation is up to the owner ) because those components affect a lion's share of the suspension's role. Sway bars are perhaps next. Then there's bushings ...lots of them. And don't forget the rubber which is either sticking tenaciously (as in R compounds) which transfers loads into the suspension/chassis, or a street tire (or a sliding street tire) where much less load is transferred. This is why those real track cars with rigid bushes, firm coilovers, RS motor/tranny mounts, and strut braces stick so well: everything in the system is addressed, not just piecemeal. So if anyone wants to add a brace, that's great; just don't expect your car to handle any better, unless you address (or plan to in the future) the other susp-related stuff as you go.

Overall, I am not trying to be contentious at all. I am just saying that a strut tower brace clearly has its place. And it will never be a "deficit" in our lovely 993s, but what it offers in tangible gains is negligible, under the conditions I have described anyway; but a real plus when other key items have been replaced to "close" the system, as it were. Anyway, it's fun talking about.


Edward

Scott 1996 993c2

Hey Joe -

I'll check it out and see if I can notice any movement . . . problem is . . . if so . . . might have just moved back. Perhaps there'd be some evidence of scratching or something under the nuts??? I'll try to take and post some pics . . . thing is . . . my Photoshop seems to have caught a bug or something . . . as its not functioning . . . so I'm having a tough time re-sizing pics to meet posting requirements here.

Scott

InTheAir

No disagreement, Ed. Since you admitted not knowing about cabs, I thought I would provide some personal experience and note that there are additional benefits of the strut brace, namely squeek management.

AOW162435

Gert and I have been corresponding since November. At the time, I asked about the GT2 replica and he cautioned me not to purchase the Fabspeed version, due to the issues already discussed here. He mentioned that he had found a new manufacturer and was looking to offer the GT2 bar again in the near future.

At this point, I just send him an email every month or so but it's not looking very promising

The cost from Gert would have been less than buying the Fabspeed version...

Andreas