tj90

High all, I had a really bad experience with Raybestos ceramic brakes on my '03 mitsu montero. Basically, I had to replace all rotors after 10k miles. A brake guy I know (he owns a brake parts distribution company that supplies professional mechancs) was telling me that Im not the only one complaining. Apparently, aftermarket ceramic brakes are really hard on rotors and many consumers are having issues with rotor vibration. Ceramic pads are being marketed as "low dusting" at your local parts store.

Are you wondering what this post has to do with 993s? Give me explain! I have heard that Porsche uses ceramic brake pads as OE. Is that true? What was OE on the 993? 996? 997?

Keep in mind that my post relates to street driving. I presume on the track, ceramics may be able to manage heat better. I dunno. When it comes time to do a brake job, I want to pick the best pads. Maybe the rotor vibration is limited to particular makes... Maybe not an issue on Porsche or other german makes....

pcar964

You're thinking of ceramic composite (PCCB) brakes, those are not found on 993s, and are an exensive option on 997s. OEM was Textar semi-metallic for 993s. Do a search on PCCB and you'll learn all you need to know.

As far as which pads to use, that depends on your use of the car. Stock pads are enough for any street use. Any pad you buy at a generic auto parts store will be crap, "ceramic" or not.

tj90

I have heard of PCCB brakes, but I was actually referring to ceramic PADS. The "authority" (sic) at Pep boys told me that "all HP cars come stock with ceramic pads - mercedes, porsche!". I did not bother telling him that I actually have a Porsche.

I was wondering that at the same time Porsche converted to 15W-50 to 0W-40 they may have switched brake pad material as well... I know that my 993 does not have ceramics - they dust like mount st helens - but I know they are not original either. I think I may opt for semi-metallics when its time for a brake job....

I forgot to mention in my orignal post was that the rotors (all 4) started vibrating after about 10k miles. That is the problem that my colleague was speaking about.

Bob Rouleau

tJ90 - Ceramic pads do a better job of resisting heat and are preferred for the track. New Porsches like the GT3 come with ceramic pads and trackies love the Pagid RS-19 Endurance racing pads, which are ceramic.

I have used the RS-19 on my GT3 and do not have any vibration issues with them, now with the OEM "sport pads" that came with the car.

I do not think ceramic pads are a benefit for a street driven car. They car quite a bit more expensive.

Vibration is usually caused by uneven deposits on the rotor. The friction that stops our cars is between the pad and a layer of pad material deposited on the rotor. That's why we are told the break in new pads and rotors. Visit www.stoptech.com for more info.

Best,

NoSubEDU

I'm all about ceramic pads. In fact, I used Carbotech exclusively on my Audi.

As mentioned, the ceramic pad has a better heat dissipation quality, and contrary to what you posted (no offense...), I have found that even some of the more aggressive ceramic racing pads are pretty kind to rotors...moreso than semi-metallic pads.

Ceramic pads are also much easier on the brake dust, for street applications.

But yes, I have had great success with ceramic racing pads for the track. I used them with the stock system and a Brembo BBK on the audi. Currently I have some Pagids on the 993 because they came with the car, but after they get worn I'm going to be all over Carbotech for a decent setup.

NoSubEDU

And one other note...it's wise to stick to one base (ceramic OR semi-metallic) as the use of both on the same rotor WILL lead to squeel and vibration because they simply just don't work well with each other.

I used a ceramic street pad and a ceramic racing pad on the same rotor and had no issues. The more aggressive ceramic pad was able to scrubb off the street ceramic material. However, I learned from a previous lesson which was that the ceramic racing pad could not remove all of the semi-metallic street pad (original rotors) and vice-versa.

Mark in Baltimore

Not all of them. Very fast racer Glen Gatlin has used the Autozone pads for his cars on the track. With the lifetime warranty, he brings them back in and gets a new set.

I might try this approach this season.

tj90

Nosubedu:
You make an interesting observation about mixing semi-metallic and ceramic. I believe I had semi metallics (SMs) on prior to ceramic on the same rotor. If the vibration was caused from previously having SMs - that would explain my issue.

The Raybestos brakes only claim with ceramic is the low dusting properties. I dont believe they make any claims on heat buildup etc.

I took my 993 on the track and found that the "weakest link" was not the brakes (SMs on std rotors) but rather thestreet tires. After 12 laps at the short track at willow springs, the tires were becoming a liability and it was time to exit before my session was over. I dont recall any fade to the brakes. I do remember turning the front steering wheel with the front not responding!!!

pcar964

I have the autozone pads on my car right now, and they are crap. I'm talking about fading horribly after 1/2 lap at Sebring. To the point where a full lap at speed is impossible. Only reason I tried them on the track, was that I forgot to bring my hawk track pads with me. I needed something cheap and quiet for the street, which is the only reason I have them.

Either Glen has huge brakes, incredible cooling, or different pads than the ones I have.

NoSubEDU

That was exactly the issue I had with my stock brakes on my Audi. I was using the stock OEM semi-mettalic (sm) pads for the street and then replacing them with ceramic race pads for the track. It only took one track event before I started having terrible vibration issues. The fact that the rotors were one piece only made it worse. Who knows what, if any, the fact that they were cryogenically frozen has anything to do wtih it.

I can understand that. After I bought the car and put a seriously stiff suspension in it, I took it out on the track with one stock seat (my supplier gave me a racing seat without the track rails to install it ) and a set of tires (that came with the car) that were apparently over a year old and had a few track events on them. They apparently had enough heat cycles in them that they were no longer grippy. They were in fact a hazard and I joined the 360 club on more than one occasion. Nothing serious as it went loose in slow corners, but very frustrating to say the least. Yikes!

It's amazing how much of a difference a decent tire makes.

Mark in Baltimore

Perhaps all of the above. Most likely, Glen doesn't use his brakes that much.

How much are the Autozone pads?

pcar964

If I recall they were around $30 for the fronts, lifetime warranty. I have Metal Masters on the back. If you brake hard from 130 down to 30 or so, they will still work.... but only once They fade horribly after they heat up. Of course I have some fun on the street from time to time, but nothing that requires repeated hard braking.

My only concern is, if I were ever on a mountain road going downhill, these pads would surely get cooked after a very short period of time, and not be safe. They're just a temporary solution, and I wouldn't recommend them even for a daily driver unless you live in a very flat state!

Mark in Baltimore

Pcar,

I'm assuming your brakes were recently bled or flushed? What kind of brake fluid do you run? I use SRF for maximum margin.

viperbob

I used a ceramic pad for my Chevy C3500 dually tow vehicle. I installed them with new rotors (the rotor for a one ton truck weighs about 75 lbs). They Akebono's new line of ceramics touted for their high temp capability for help with large loads and towing. In a very short time, they started causing an intolerable braking vibration on the steering wheel. Hard stops were almost uncontrollable. Rotor was fine. Pad transfer onto the rotors caused sticking and was terrible. No more ceramic pads for me.

epj993

I replaced with ceramics on my Tundra, primarily for the low dust. They suck! Lower dust, but that dust sticks and stains terribly on the wheels. Way harder to remove than the OEM dusty pads. Plus, the vibration is a danger. They're headed for the trash very soon.