A poor experience with Manhattan Motorcars' service department
11-27-2005, 03:27 PM
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A poor experience with Manhattan Motorcars' service department
I recently had a particularly poor experience with Manhattan Motorcars' service department.
I brought my car to Manhattan Motorcars (the local official Porsche dealer) for the first time recently, for a set of services that included a "tech inspection" checklist required before taking my 993 to a weekend track event at Limerock in Connecticut.
The form was completed and no problems/issues were highlighted. As I left the shop, the service representative said in a friendly tone "Have a great time on the track!"
Upon arrival at the track, I checked my tire pressure and noticed, in horror, that my right-rear tire had been seriously punctured and plugged with a gummy bright-yellow ball of something resembling rubber cement!!! Without a replacement tire handy, I did not drive the car on the track, and the weekend was ruined... the track fee was wasted... and if I hadn't noticed it in time, my instructor and I might have been injured.
Personally, I would never consider plugging a tire, either for track use or otherwise. The tires were nearly new... the car had never been at any shop since the purchase of the new tires, and as I do check my tire pressure fairly regularly the plug could not have been put there by the shop that installed the tires in the first place (or else I would have noticed it earlier). There is no reasonable explanation other than that the tire was plugged during the time that Manhattan Motorcars possessed the vehicle.
How could a proper business check off the following item on a track inspection form and sign their name to it in this circumstance? "Tires: H speed rating or higher and suitable for expected speeds. No cuts, blisters, cracks or cord evident. No snow or recap tires. Wet conditions may require a minimum of 3/32 inch of tread."
When I called MM on Monday to report back, the service rep agreed that the only reasonable explanation was that someone at their shop must have plugged the tire (after leaving their shop I only drove the car the 20-30 blocks to my garage before taking it to Limerock a couple days later without driving it in the meantime). He then spoke to the shop workers and reported back that one of them had indeed plugged the tire. Then it gets even more strange....... he calls back later and says that after speaking to his boss they could not be 100% sure how the tire plug got there (now retracting his previous oral statement that his worker had admitted plugging the tire), and therefore they will not pay to replace the tire that they damaged (nevermind reimbursing track or other service fees). I informed him politely that I would not bring my car to his shop ever again.
I suppose I could sue for some inconsequential amount of cash damages, or maybe dispute the credit card charges, but it is just not worth my time as I could get much better returns by spending my time on pursuits other than chasing them down.
In the end, I am fortunate that their gross negligence did not cause serious injury to myself or others.
I am not looking for support here... I only want to relay to the Rennlist community that for anyone who lives in Manhattan, I recommend finding an alternative shop to Manhattan Motorcars (in addition to being irresponsible and disingenuous, they are very expensive). There are numerous pre-existing threads discussing nearby independent Porsche specialty shops... I know one that I have typically used for years without any significant issues if anyone requests a recommendation.
I brought my car to Manhattan Motorcars (the local official Porsche dealer) for the first time recently, for a set of services that included a "tech inspection" checklist required before taking my 993 to a weekend track event at Limerock in Connecticut.
The form was completed and no problems/issues were highlighted. As I left the shop, the service representative said in a friendly tone "Have a great time on the track!"
Upon arrival at the track, I checked my tire pressure and noticed, in horror, that my right-rear tire had been seriously punctured and plugged with a gummy bright-yellow ball of something resembling rubber cement!!! Without a replacement tire handy, I did not drive the car on the track, and the weekend was ruined... the track fee was wasted... and if I hadn't noticed it in time, my instructor and I might have been injured.
Personally, I would never consider plugging a tire, either for track use or otherwise. The tires were nearly new... the car had never been at any shop since the purchase of the new tires, and as I do check my tire pressure fairly regularly the plug could not have been put there by the shop that installed the tires in the first place (or else I would have noticed it earlier). There is no reasonable explanation other than that the tire was plugged during the time that Manhattan Motorcars possessed the vehicle.
How could a proper business check off the following item on a track inspection form and sign their name to it in this circumstance? "Tires: H speed rating or higher and suitable for expected speeds. No cuts, blisters, cracks or cord evident. No snow or recap tires. Wet conditions may require a minimum of 3/32 inch of tread."
When I called MM on Monday to report back, the service rep agreed that the only reasonable explanation was that someone at their shop must have plugged the tire (after leaving their shop I only drove the car the 20-30 blocks to my garage before taking it to Limerock a couple days later without driving it in the meantime). He then spoke to the shop workers and reported back that one of them had indeed plugged the tire. Then it gets even more strange....... he calls back later and says that after speaking to his boss they could not be 100% sure how the tire plug got there (now retracting his previous oral statement that his worker had admitted plugging the tire), and therefore they will not pay to replace the tire that they damaged (nevermind reimbursing track or other service fees). I informed him politely that I would not bring my car to his shop ever again.
I suppose I could sue for some inconsequential amount of cash damages, or maybe dispute the credit card charges, but it is just not worth my time as I could get much better returns by spending my time on pursuits other than chasing them down.
In the end, I am fortunate that their gross negligence did not cause serious injury to myself or others.
I am not looking for support here... I only want to relay to the Rennlist community that for anyone who lives in Manhattan, I recommend finding an alternative shop to Manhattan Motorcars (in addition to being irresponsible and disingenuous, they are very expensive). There are numerous pre-existing threads discussing nearby independent Porsche specialty shops... I know one that I have typically used for years without any significant issues if anyone requests a recommendation.
11-28-2005, 10:48 AM
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JPL I'm actually surprised they first admitted any fault whatsoever. I've been to LRP, not a very friendly place to have a blowout!What a way to ruin a weekend. I'm pretty fed-up with dealers and I've only been to one, for my PPI. If you do find another service center in or near NYC, I'd like to know about it.
11-28-2005, 11:23 AM
#4
You've gotta go there in person and look the general manager in the eye.
If they admitted fault, they've gotta own up.
They'd make this $ back in a 30K service. And avoid the PR boilover in the process.
If they admitted fault, they've gotta own up.
They'd make this $ back in a 30K service. And avoid the PR boilover in the process.
11-28-2005, 12:25 PM
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Mention "Rennlist" and see if that gets their attention.
Also, do a chargeback if you paid by credit card. That will get their attention, too.
Sorry to hear of your troubles.
Also, do a chargeback if you paid by credit card. That will get their attention, too.
Sorry to hear of your troubles.
11-28-2005, 02:03 PM
#6
I would put it in writing to Service Director and copy GM. If tire is ruined tell them you need replacements. Avoid calls or visits with "he and she said".
Positive you caught the repair in time. Plus, LRP can be a challenge with cold track at this time of year.
Positive you caught the repair in time. Plus, LRP can be a challenge with cold track at this time of year.
11-28-2005, 04:42 PM
#7
Manhattan Motorcars: TOTAL TOTAL SLIMEBALLS. Dented rocker on my 97 TT S: no respnsibility. Damaged steering wheel: no responsibility. They are the ABSOLUTELY WORST CAR DEALER I HAVE EVER ENCOUNTERED IN 40 YEARS!
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11-29-2005, 12:19 AM
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Sounds like my experience at Manhattan Motorcars was not an isolated incident...
Gregory, since you asked, I know about the following shops, none of which are especially close to Manhattan... I have no affiliation with any of these places:
- Lynmor Motors... about 30 miles east, in Huntington (Long Island)... I have been there 5-10 times... knowledgeable, and I always had a straightforward experience there. (The owner, Chris, does club racing in his 964 and is or was the chief tech guy for his PCA chapter; he can sometimes be strongly opinionated but he does seem to be right very often).
- Rennwerke Porsche... in Nyack, north of NYC... I haven't been there, some people have said they are good
- CIM Motorsports... also north of NYC (near the Woodbury Common Outlets if you know where that is). I've been there once for a NY State Inspection... the guy seemed knowledgeable and straightforward in my limited time with them
- Paul Miller Porsche in NJ... I haven't used their service shop, but if I ever need to visit a Porsche dealer again I think they are the nearest (excluding MM). I met one of their salespeople once, he has a 993 and posts on Rennlist.
Gregory, since you asked, I know about the following shops, none of which are especially close to Manhattan... I have no affiliation with any of these places:
- Lynmor Motors... about 30 miles east, in Huntington (Long Island)... I have been there 5-10 times... knowledgeable, and I always had a straightforward experience there. (The owner, Chris, does club racing in his 964 and is or was the chief tech guy for his PCA chapter; he can sometimes be strongly opinionated but he does seem to be right very often).
- Rennwerke Porsche... in Nyack, north of NYC... I haven't been there, some people have said they are good
- CIM Motorsports... also north of NYC (near the Woodbury Common Outlets if you know where that is). I've been there once for a NY State Inspection... the guy seemed knowledgeable and straightforward in my limited time with them
- Paul Miller Porsche in NJ... I haven't used their service shop, but if I ever need to visit a Porsche dealer again I think they are the nearest (excluding MM). I met one of their salespeople once, he has a 993 and posts on Rennlist.
Last edited by JPL 993-C4S; 11-29-2005 at 12:43 AM.
11-29-2005, 12:32 AM
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Jack Daniels Porsche in NJ is not that far from NYC (closer than Paul Miller I think). It's probably 15 minutes from the GWB with no traffic (like that ever happens). I can't speak about their Porsche Service but I had an Audi S4 that I took took there (to the audi service dept. obviously). They are all housed in the same building. They did an excellent job servicing the s4, first class all the way around. You might want to give them a try.
I also took my S4 to an independent shop in Bloomfield\coldwell that did great work and I know they will work on Porsches. I can't remember the name right now but I could did it up if needed.
Also if you need a tech inspection type service you might want to check out Eurotire out in Fairfield NJ. While they are a tire and alignment shop (the best in NJ, if you ask me) they are active in the Porsche club and host tech inspections and seminars in their shop.
Matt
I also took my S4 to an independent shop in Bloomfield\coldwell that did great work and I know they will work on Porsches. I can't remember the name right now but I could did it up if needed.
Also if you need a tech inspection type service you might want to check out Eurotire out in Fairfield NJ. While they are a tire and alignment shop (the best in NJ, if you ask me) they are active in the Porsche club and host tech inspections and seminars in their shop.
Matt
11-29-2005, 02:09 AM
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Originally Posted by Gregory993
JPL I'm actually surprised they first admitted any fault whatsoever. I've been to LRP, not a very friendly place to have a blowout!What a way to ruin a weekend. I'm pretty fed-up with dealers and I've only been to one, for my PPI. If you do find another service center in or near NYC, I'd like to know about it.
1. TKX Performance (formerly RPM Racing) - Tazo the owner/chief tech there is a very knowledgable and stand-up guy. He is also the "Mid and Rear Engine" tech advisor for the Metro NY PCA Chapter. Very reasonable pricing. They are located in Huntington, LI.
2. Formula One Motorsports - Mark is the owner and seems very knowledgable. He is pretty opinionated so some may have a hard time getting used to his personality, but overall a very nice guy. I think his prices are a little bit higher than TKX's, but still resonable by NYC standards. He is located in LIC, 5 minutes from the 59th St. bridge so very convenient for city dwellers.
Again....I have only been to both shops for routine maintenance and tech inspections, so I cannot speak for their quality and expertise in more complex jobs.
Good luck.
11-29-2005, 10:03 AM
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I have used Jack Daniels Porsche in Paramus, NJ and am very happy with their service. I have also used Powertech (a bit further out than Jack Daniels) and was very satisfied with their work. I think Jack Daniels would be better for you because they are about 15 mins from the GWB and they seem to know the 993 well.
11-29-2005, 10:37 AM
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Hey - I love in Manhattan. Manhattan Motorcars is absolutely the worst by far. I take mine to Mark at Formula Motrosports in Queens - just over the 59th St. bridge. He has fixed a multitude of issues that MM couldn't even be able to fathom. Tell him Peter sent you.
11-29-2005, 04:52 PM
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Sounds like Formula Motorsports is pretty popular and well-recommended within NYC... Lynmor has always been good for me but it's definitely an inconvenience to take the LIRR train back in...
Has anyone on here had a bad experience at Formula Motorsports?
Has anyone on here had a bad experience at Formula Motorsports?
11-29-2005, 08:32 PM
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SEnd info to regional servive rep,PCNA BBB auto line. Give them a horrible CSI and sue them in small claims court !!!