kkim

As Ray says, a shop manual is invaluable. Consider yourself lucky he put a smiley face thing in his post.

As a guide for you to see what's involved, take a look at this DIY on suspension installation.

http://p-car.com/diy/sus/

good luck

Dudley

Autobonrun - Thanks but I am all done with jacks - just bought a scissors lift

BTW there are a lot of us running ROW 030 springs and sways with the Bilstein HDs. Gert has the Bilsteins with the extra threads cut for lowering but Bilstein may also offer them in the US by now.

Baggerdude

Auto....

If you run a search you will find tons of posts regarding just this question. I did and decided to choose Gert's HD Bilsteins and sways along with the new M030s. Plus, a bunch of photogs.

My shop spent a great deal of time hookin' all this stuff up cuz they had not done so before, but I gotta tell ya...... it is MUCH better than my stock setup.

My car is a 993 C4S.... had 26K miles on the clock when I bought it last August. I now have 32K on it. 4K on the new suspension.

The car has been transformed by the suspension.... it corners FLAT! and it rides very nice. I don't like a 'too firm' ride, and Gert's set up is perfect. I don't track the car... and don't plan to.

I love the look of the lower suspension set up did. That's one of the best points. My car sits at 25.25" at the inner corner of the fender roll both front and back. One of the best setting 993s I have seen. It sits FLAT!

BTW, I got Gert's front protection bar... but, I've had many low cars and I have not scraped this one once..... so far.

Get Gert's HD Bilsteins with the sways and the M030s.... then have the car 4 corner balanced. Makes all the difference. Then..... add a new exhaust.

BAGGER

autobonrun

Actually, since about 1999 my tech experience has greatly improved. Access to the Porsche tech sites gave me the confidence to try a few repairs on my own. I changed out my SC's shocks, torsion bars (never again though), brakes, rotors, alternator and a few other straight forward jobs. I actually did a rebuild on my bmw740's transmission valve body that took about two days. So I guess I'm getting mechanically inclined.

Kkim, thanks for the p-car link. It gives a good overview of what's involved and it's something I probably will tackle. I just did a cursory look at the rears and see I will need to remove the air intake box to access that shock tower. I can't believe I haven't had my car a whole month before planning a modification

Bagger, I'll contact Gert on Monday. Since I have the US M030 option now, I can probably get by with the current sways, but I'll definitely check on the Bilstein HDs and ROW springs. Dudley's advice about Gert's extra threads on their Bilsteins is priceless. I thoght they would all be the same regardless of supplier.

Several others have advised me to get the shop manual. I'll go ahead and spring for that right away. Can you recommend a good source?

jimbo3

Bagger mentions that corner balancing is needed with the Bilstein HD/ RoW M030 spring set-up while Martin says that, with OEM RoW M030 shocks and springs, corner balancing isn't available. I take it that the spring perch on the OEM M030 is fixed? If so, wouldn't it be preferable to be able to adjust for corner balance? (Making Bilstein a better choice in that regard?) Can the HD simply be adjusted so that the spring perch is in the same relative location to the OEM RoW M030 shock (assuming the perch IS fixed) and skip the corner balance?

I'm leaning toward Gert's M030 RoW springs & sways w/ Bilstein HDs on a 96 C2 narrow body. I'm assuming that there is some adjustablility on the sways? Summarizing what to do after installation- corner balance, align to -1 camber (F&R) and kinematic toe. Sound about right for a street car that needs a lower appearance and better handling w/o damaging dental work? Any reccomendations on sways?

Just starting to get the hang of this topic and I want to be sure I'm going to be doing the right thing the FIRST time! (I only know enough to be dangerous...) Hopefully, any answers will help Autobonrun, too.

Thanks in advance for any advice/comments.

Paul E. Dodd

Jimbo-

You are correct regarding spring perches (fixed on M030, adjustable on Bilstein). However, I think you are incorrect on the swaybars. The M030 sways are bigger than standard, but are not adjustable. You need the RS sways (or others make them also) if you want adjustability. However, for a street car, adjustable swaybars are probably overkill and the M030's would be fine.

Many folks like the RS alignment specifications as shown in the factory manual. They are not crazy for a street-driven car.

Paul

chris walrod

All front 993 dampers are adjustable for purposes of corner balancing. Its the rear thats fixed.

jimbo3

Thanks, guys. Looks like the proper course of action is a full corner balance is needed no matter which direction one goes. A couple of follow-up questions that will hopefully help Autobonrun, too:
-If it's dropped about 1 to 1.5 inches, will bump steer start to become an issue? (If not, out of curiosity, at what point IS bump steer an issue?)
-A fairly reliable source at PCA suggests that the M030 sways are better on smooth pavement, but might not be as good as the basic stock sways on uneven and/or wet pavement- comments?? (Assuming HD's and RoW M030 springs.)
-Objective on alignment, particularily camber, is to take advantage of lowering with HD's and RoW M030 on the street while having reasonably good, even tire wear. RS specs are good for this app?

Thanks again!
Jim

autobonrun

You're correct in that I had many of the same questions. I contacted Gert a couple weeks ago and got email responses. He was very helpful and I will definitely purchase from them when I ready to move forward. I already have the US M030 option with larger sway bars so I just need the springs and shocks. Here were my initial questions:

"What is the difference between the M030 ROW springs and the HR springs? With either I would want the Bilstein HD shocks with the longer threads.

Will lowering the car mean I need to adjust the steering rack setup?"

Here are his responses:

"The RoW M030 springs will make the ride slightly firmer than your US M030 setup.

The H&R springs will allow you to lower the car more and the ride will become more comfortable.

Since you have the M030 option, you already have the bigger swaybars.

You don’t need to change the steering rack if you lower it. On a 993, you only get bumpsteer once you lower 50mm or more.

Even then, some people don’t even notice it.

If you’re a sporty driver, I would change the shocks and springs into the RoW M030 with the extra threaded Bilstein HD shocks.

That will allow you to lower the car up to 40-45 mm from US stock height. The ride becomes slightly firmer but much better damped as the HD’s match these springs very well."


In my second email, I asked Gert the following questions:

1) Have you heard of not being able to get the car to align after lowering it?

2) If I go with your suggestion of the Bilstein HDs with the ROW springs, what alignment figures do people use: the ROW M030 alignment numbers?

3) Are there any rubber bump stops or other parts on top of my current shocks that will need to be reused with the new ones or do they come with instructions and everything needed to replace my current shocks in total?


And here was his response:

" With this kind of parts, you can always align the car.

When lowering 40mm, you can either go for the RoW M030 alignment or the alignment of the 993RS.

Most align according to the RS specs.

I can get you the alignment specs if needed.

The front shocks don’t have bump stops. The rear HD’s come with new bumpstops.

You need to re-use a lot of parts from the original suspension such as spring tops, front perches.

I have installation instructions available for this particular setup."

Dudley

Unless you are building a track car, I would suggest you go no lower than RoW M030. You may find the RS height a bit too low for the street.