Need Help: DIY SAI Flush Problem
09-25-2005, 01:42 AM
#47
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Eric,
Hopefully you will have an easier time than I did unclogging the SAI port(if that is indeed what you have). I hope you can afford to have your car indisposed for a few days, at least, as it takes some time for whatever solvent you intend to use to soften up and clear out the passages.
One note of warning... make sure the vacuum line on the back side of the rubber hose connected to the top of the SAI valve is in place when you button everything back up. When you initially remove the hose and move it out of the way, the vacuum line has a tendency to come off and it is not visible from where you are working. You have to kind of feel around the back side of the hose to get it reconnected properly.
Yes, please post your results.
Good luck.
Hopefully you will have an easier time than I did unclogging the SAI port(if that is indeed what you have). I hope you can afford to have your car indisposed for a few days, at least, as it takes some time for whatever solvent you intend to use to soften up and clear out the passages.
One note of warning... make sure the vacuum line on the back side of the rubber hose connected to the top of the SAI valve is in place when you button everything back up. When you initially remove the hose and move it out of the way, the vacuum line has a tendency to come off and it is not visible from where you are working. You have to kind of feel around the back side of the hose to get it reconnected properly.
Yes, please post your results.
Good luck.
09-25-2005, 01:58 AM
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Kelly,
Thanks - I'll keep that in mind. It's a first time thing for me, but shouldn't be too much of a problem. I'll try to do some pics, but will definitely let you know how it goes.
On another topic - how's Kauai? Are you the only C2 on the island? Is there anyplace to "stretch your legs" there? Seems like beautiful country to take a drive...
-Eric
Thanks - I'll keep that in mind. It's a first time thing for me, but shouldn't be too much of a problem. I'll try to do some pics, but will definitely let you know how it goes.
On another topic - how's Kauai? Are you the only C2 on the island? Is there anyplace to "stretch your legs" there? Seems like beautiful country to take a drive...
-Eric
09-25-2005, 03:56 PM
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Kelly, great idea on the weld-on-an-air-nipple. I like it! Now, just remote mount it so it sticks out the hood just like the airjack receptacle on a cup car. Every night, just plug in the battery maintainer and an air source
09-26-2005, 12:02 PM
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Well, spent this weekend implementing Kelly's method and it works great. Not having a brazing setup, I used one hour metal epoxy to attach the air connect. It's not as pretty, but works well.
I'm clear on cylinders 3,4,5, & 6, but 1 & 2 are very stubborn - even at 120psi! I've let it soak overnight and will give it another try this morning.
More to come...
I'm clear on cylinders 3,4,5, & 6, but 1 & 2 are very stubborn - even at 120psi! I've let it soak overnight and will give it another try this morning.
More to come...
09-26-2005, 07:49 PM
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Kelly,
I'm still having problems clearing the ports on cylinders 1 & 2. I keep loading up with the carb cleaner and pressurizing to 100+psi. I'm getting the *slightest* drip, so something must be getting through - but no very much.
When you did your clogged #6 port, how long did it take?
Thanks in advance...
I'm still having problems clearing the ports on cylinders 1 & 2. I keep loading up with the carb cleaner and pressurizing to 100+psi. I'm getting the *slightest* drip, so something must be getting through - but no very much.
When you did your clogged #6 port, how long did it take?
Thanks in advance...
09-26-2005, 08:04 PM
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Eric,
It took a couple of days using different agents... I tried techron, seafoam, jb carb cleaner... even a bit of lacquer thinner, though I wouldn't recommend it.
One thing you could try that seemed to help is to take the rubber stopper out of one of the other ports in the same bank. The pressurized air has somewhere to flow and that possibly helps to get the solvent to the plugged port better. I know it doesn't make sense, but it seemed to help unclog the port. After I got it flowing a bit better, I replugged the good port and continued forcing the fluid out the semi plugged port. It eventually started to spit out small bits of carbon until the port started flowing freely.
You can also try sticking a relatively stiff piece of wire up the clogged ports if you haven't done so. It depends where the clog is... you might be able to help it some, though it didn't help me.
Hope the epoxy is strong enough to handle the pressure. You might try throwing a towel or blanket on it just in case it decides to let go.
Might prevent something from the getting damaged.
Good luck... holler if you need more ideas.
It took a couple of days using different agents... I tried techron, seafoam, jb carb cleaner... even a bit of lacquer thinner, though I wouldn't recommend it.
One thing you could try that seemed to help is to take the rubber stopper out of one of the other ports in the same bank. The pressurized air has somewhere to flow and that possibly helps to get the solvent to the plugged port better. I know it doesn't make sense, but it seemed to help unclog the port. After I got it flowing a bit better, I replugged the good port and continued forcing the fluid out the semi plugged port. It eventually started to spit out small bits of carbon until the port started flowing freely.
You can also try sticking a relatively stiff piece of wire up the clogged ports if you haven't done so. It depends where the clog is... you might be able to help it some, though it didn't help me.
Hope the epoxy is strong enough to handle the pressure. You might try throwing a towel or blanket on it just in case it decides to let go.
Might prevent something from the getting damaged.Good luck... holler if you need more ideas.
09-26-2005, 10:09 PM
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This sure is slow going. Kelly mentioned it took him several days & I'm on day 2. So, I'll keep pluggin away.
This sure is a pain, but I've got an idea. This is just a concept, but all input would be appreciated.
My idea is a "SAI Service Port" that would allow periodic shots of carb cleaner directly into the SAI ports without needing to go through this process.
Here's the basics:
1. Create or purchase a threaded fitting that would screw into the crankcase where the SAI check valve currently goes. The check valve would screw on top of this fitting.
2. The fitting would have a tee to connect a metal tube that would bend around the VarioRam under the air cleaner.
3. The metal tube would connect to a shutoff valve with another short tube on the other side. This would be capped with a rubber cover or plug.
Assuming this works, the maintenance process might go like this:
1. Do the full SAI flush as documented here and on p-car.com to get your ports clear. Install the SAISP just described.
2. Determine a service interval, maybe every 500 miles. You could round to the nearest 500 on your speedometer for convienence.
3. At the service interval while the engine is cold, remove the rubber plug, open the new SAISP shutoff valve. Using a syringe (or similar), inject a small amount (to be determined) of carb cleaner and close the valve.
4. Start the car. Since the SAI ports inject air only when the engine is cold, the SAI air flow will take the cleaner with it and out through the exhaust. You'd probably get some black smoke for a short time, but that would burn off.
The idea here is that once the ports are flushed & clear, this simple maintenance *might* prevent the carbon buildup from reoccurring. And, it would be a whole lot easier than the full flush routine. Regular replacement of the SAI check valve would still be required.
Of course, it will be hard to tell how well this works. I'm willing to give it a try. If all goes well, maybe 10,000-15,000 miles from now I could pull everything apart, do the full flush and see if the ports have stayed clear. Worst case is that it doesn't work and I'm only out a minimal investment and some maintenance time. Best case is that the ports stay clear, no SAI CEL and no full flush routine.
I'd love to hear from everyone who's had to do the flush and if you think this might be feasible.
Thanks in advance,
This sure is a pain, but I've got an idea. This is just a concept, but all input would be appreciated.
My idea is a "SAI Service Port" that would allow periodic shots of carb cleaner directly into the SAI ports without needing to go through this process.
Here's the basics:
1. Create or purchase a threaded fitting that would screw into the crankcase where the SAI check valve currently goes. The check valve would screw on top of this fitting.
2. The fitting would have a tee to connect a metal tube that would bend around the VarioRam under the air cleaner.
3. The metal tube would connect to a shutoff valve with another short tube on the other side. This would be capped with a rubber cover or plug.
Assuming this works, the maintenance process might go like this:
1. Do the full SAI flush as documented here and on p-car.com to get your ports clear. Install the SAISP just described.
2. Determine a service interval, maybe every 500 miles. You could round to the nearest 500 on your speedometer for convienence.
3. At the service interval while the engine is cold, remove the rubber plug, open the new SAISP shutoff valve. Using a syringe (or similar), inject a small amount (to be determined) of carb cleaner and close the valve.
4. Start the car. Since the SAI ports inject air only when the engine is cold, the SAI air flow will take the cleaner with it and out through the exhaust. You'd probably get some black smoke for a short time, but that would burn off.
The idea here is that once the ports are flushed & clear, this simple maintenance *might* prevent the carbon buildup from reoccurring. And, it would be a whole lot easier than the full flush routine. Regular replacement of the SAI check valve would still be required.
Of course, it will be hard to tell how well this works. I'm willing to give it a try. If all goes well, maybe 10,000-15,000 miles from now I could pull everything apart, do the full flush and see if the ports have stayed clear. Worst case is that it doesn't work and I'm only out a minimal investment and some maintenance time. Best case is that the ports stay clear, no SAI CEL and no full flush routine.
I'd love to hear from everyone who's had to do the flush and if you think this might be feasible.
Thanks in advance,
09-26-2005, 10:15 PM
#56
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Originally Posted by epj993
My idea is a "SAI Service Port" that would allow periodic shots of carb cleaner directly into the SAI ports without needing to go through this process.
09-26-2005, 10:20 PM
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IMHO once the flush is done properly, the check valve is replaced every 15,000 miles, you will not need to perform this flush for a long time. We now have some mileage on the cars we started doing the flush on a couple of years ago and all look good. Up to 27K and no signs of return blockage.
09-26-2005, 10:29 PM
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Originally Posted by Laura
IMHO once the flush is done properly, the check valve is replaced every 15,000 miles, you will not need to perform this flush for a long time. We now have some mileage on the cars we started doing the flush on a couple of years ago and all look good. Up to 27K and no signs of return blockage.
09-28-2005, 06:58 PM
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Sorry I got in on this late. I think a maintenance of the type you describe after a flush is a good idea. However the plumbing you describe has the solvent going in on the downstream side of the check valve (the other side of the check valve from the pump) if I understand your description. Why would you not inject on the pump side of the check valve and the fluid will stay in position until the pump runs upon cold start. I had an interchange with Joel Reiser PCA about such a scheme. He warns about damaging the CAT. There may be some merit in his caution. If you read up on what can cause CAT failures, you will find that burning "fuel" in the CAT can overheat and damage them permanently. Something to consider.
On a related questiion. It seems to me that the check valve MUST fail (leak) for exhaust gas to go up these passages and deposit carbon. Regular check valve replacement or doubling up on the check valve and increasing the flow created by the pump could help this issue disappear?
On a related questiion. It seems to me that the check valve MUST fail (leak) for exhaust gas to go up these passages and deposit carbon. Regular check valve replacement or doubling up on the check valve and increasing the flow created by the pump could help this issue disappear?