trojanman

My saga has been well-published here so I won't go into it again. Basically my issue is this... while my baby's in the shop for a top end next week it's likely that I'll just go ahead and have the clutch replaced; 40k miles on the clock (I gather this will save me well over $1k in labor since the engine will already be out).

I've got a line on a new Sachs OEM clutch (pressure plate, release bearing, disk, etc.) for around $450. Assuming I don't mess with the DM flywheel, aren't I saving like $800 - $1,000 over the LWF/RS clutch set-up? I'm having trouble justifying the extra cost especially because I'm just a weekend warrior with no track aspirations.

One more question... how well would a LWF mate with an OEM clutch?

Thanks in advance.

ca993twin

I also eagerly await the answers to these questions... however, since I don't have such a great line on the OEM parts, I'd probably end up with the entire kit. Someday. Mine is just a baby with 68,000 miles on the clutch.

Stevarino

Jeff:

I just went through this exercise at 38k, and the consensus at TRE and Callas (who ultimately did the work) was that for the street, the LWF has not been well received by customers. I had them install a new clutch as my RMS needed replacement. 'Turned out that my flywheel was worn down to the bolts, so I lucked out, as the RMS failure was a great clutch wear early warning system. Total cost was $2,800. I would be happy to provide you an itemized list if that would help.

Mike J

Well the LFW will not mate with the OEM clutch...the kits is from the RS and its a unique flywheel/disk/pressure plate combination. You cannot transpose the parts across.

I am running on a tight budget and my clutch needed replacing so I replaced the clutch disk only with a slightly used one from a fellow renlister. Was really cheap, I did the change myself, and it worked fine for the last 10,000 miles. When and if I decide to do the RS clutch I will drop the engine and do it all again. If I have to replace the DMF (dual mass flywheel) I will likely put the RS setup in (unless I am selling the car...I have a spare DMF lying around that would get swapped in).

The DMF vs LWF is a personal decision. Most people seem to like it but there are lots of people on the list where the cost is not a concern. If you wathcing your budget, are OK with the present clutch, like the way the car accelerates and your DMF is fine then just change the clutch disk and enjoy the car.

Straight answer eh?

Cheers,

Mike

dhicks

My DMF was going out and my clutch was going to need doing at some point....I have 80K on the clock.....The DMF is an expensive bit of kit and with the clutch and labour I was looking at a hefty bill. The LFS and RS clutch had been given good reviews by lots of people, as long as it is on a post 95 car. I plumped for the LFW and RS clutch and love it...yes it has issues....grating sound and need to keep revs slightly higher than normal as you take off, but fun factor and cost saving over the DMF were all worth the few issues

mborkow

i have the lwf (with rs clutch) and i like it. my car is used as a daily driver (about 100 miles a day) and i have no issues at all (15k miles since the install). since you have a MY96 you will not have any (stalling) issues either. get the lwf; you only live once.

Marv

I had a 90 C4 that I put the light weight flywheel and RS clutch after the dual mass flywheel began making noises that sounded like a loose chain was thrashing in the bell housing.

The 964 did have problems with stalling under certain conditions and mine did so on a few occasions. However, I did like the quick revving engine response and driving was a little different. I should say, starting out from a dead stop required a little more finesse to prevent PIO (Pilot Induced Oscillations).

I have not tried one on a 993, so it may be completely different. I just love confusing people.

I forgot to add. You will get a little more gearbox rattle with the light weight flywheel and clutch. This is normal. Porsche went to a dual mass flywheel to curb that noise because they felt customers would not accept the gearbox noises associated with a single flywheel. That is the nature of the beast.

So, if noises disturb you, you might want to reconsider or find someone that has one and listen for yourself.

Shifting gears will also be a little more notchy. You will need to be more precise with your shifts because the single flywheel is a little less forgiving.

You will not notice a real performance increase, but the engine will rev a lot faster since there is much less mass for it to spin and less momentum.

Marv

kkim

If the engine revs faster, doesn't that mean that the car will accelerate faster??? Isn't that an increase in performance? I was under the impression that was why this mod is so desirable?

JasonAndreas

Actually you can and you might be better off with the stock 993 pressure plate over what people call the 964RS pressure plate which is just the standard 964 PP (it has less clamping force according to Sachs). We just don't want to use the stock solid clutch disc with the LWF, without any driveline dampening I imagine it would be noisy as all hell.

Ray Calvo

Considering I have almost 90K miles on the OE clutch in my '95, and I actually have to give the engine a little gas to get a smooth shift and avoid the engine RPMS dropping excessively on an upshift, I can't see how a LWF would do anything for me. So, whenever I need a clutch will go with what I have in there now.

Marv

The engine "free" revs faster when there is no other load on the engine. However, if the car is in gear, the load on the engine is many orders of magnitude higher than the centripetal load of the flywheel.

It is sort of like replacing the rear wheel of your bicycle with one that is half the weight. When the wheel is off the ground you can crank it up to speed a little faster, but taking off from a standing start on the ground you won't notice any significant difference in your sprint times.

Marv

Marv

That is probably due to your transmission's synchros getting a little tired.

Marv

mborkow

"Considering I have almost 90K miles on the OE clutch in my '95, and I actually have to give the engine a little gas to get a smooth shift and avoid the engine RPMS dropping excessively on an upshift, I can't see how a LWF would do anything for me. So, whenever I need a clutch will go with what I have in there now"
everyone is entitled to an opinion, even if it is wrong. lwf is one of the most popular mods out there. cuts some unsprung weight from the car and adds some performance.

Rob 97 993c2

would this be very different on a TT? in terms of more power and AWD?

mborkow

"would this be very different on a TT? in terms of more power and AWD?"
not sure about the tt, but i have a c4 so there is no awd issue