Gert's M030s & HD Bilsteins installed....
06-01-2005, 02:22 AM
#32
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To be honest, this shop has taken you for a ride. That install cost, in my opinion is about three times what it should cost, conservatively speaking at that. Maybe they did some extra work, but a shop cannot charge you for their learning curve. They took-on the job after all. Borderline criminal, again, in my opinion..
HD's are NOT difficult at all to install. Sounds as though they positioned the rear sway bar bracket too high or too low and had to R&R the rear shocks again to get them right.... Any problems with this suspension what so ever should be taken care of by this shop asap!
Dont want to rain on your parade, but just lookin' out for the good guys
HD's are NOT difficult at all to install. Sounds as though they positioned the rear sway bar bracket too high or too low and had to R&R the rear shocks again to get them right.... Any problems with this suspension what so ever should be taken care of by this shop asap!
Dont want to rain on your parade, but just lookin' out for the good guys
06-01-2005, 03:35 AM
#33
Burning Brakes
The reason was "because the stuff was not as stated and we had to do it essentially twice".
dealing with rebuilding motors/trannys, Porsche maintenance, and building racing Porsches
Keep us posted.
Dave
06-01-2005, 01:21 PM
#34
Race Director
Originally Posted by 98993c2s
$1800? $3000? Wow...I paid about $900 and that included a four wheel alignment...
OK, checked with another 993 owner who had the same amount of labor done (R&R shocks; install new springs; 4 wheel align) and it cost him about$1k from a highly reputable shop in a pricey CA town.
I have a hard time imagining any self-respecting Porsche mechanic defending, what, 40 hours labor for this job.
06-01-2005, 01:45 PM
#35
Rennlist Member
Don't mean to just jump on the band wagon here but, I paid about the same as Robert (98993c2s).
It was local German only "tuner" shop. Lots of p-cars and Bimmers. Plenty of high-end experience. Turbo mods etc. They had their own "suspension guy". He followed Gert's instructions and told me it was a easy R&R bolt on job. And like I said no clicking, clunking or other problems.
I dropped it off in the am, picked it up the same day.
It was local German only "tuner" shop. Lots of p-cars and Bimmers. Plenty of high-end experience. Turbo mods etc. They had their own "suspension guy". He followed Gert's instructions and told me it was a easy R&R bolt on job. And like I said no clicking, clunking or other problems.
I dropped it off in the am, picked it up the same day.
06-01-2005, 09:40 PM
#36
Burning Brakes
Thread Starter
You guys are making me cry.... not a manly thing, m'friends. I don't want to think that I was taken advantage of, but it would not be the first time. I gotta a couple x-wives that have the podium on that front.
Here's the first part of the email the shop owner sent me regarding the capability of the shop to do the install of the suspension kit. Hey, I understand that they may have not installed THIS particular kit before, but .... Bilsteins, Monroes, HRs, PSS9s... yada, yada... they gotta all be SIMILAR! I'm bummed.
<<<We have successfully installed suspension kits in 993’s and many other cars. It is important for you to know that to get it right does take a fair amount of time. When it is done correctly, the car is transformed and is fun to drive. If it is just “installed” and details such as heights, alignment settings, weight balancing, etc are compromised for the purpose of “getting it done” the job will not come out right. I refuse to allow sub standard work to go out of our shop or work that our customer is not happy with.
Having said that, here is what I feel comfortable with to know that the job will come out right. Some things take more or less time than estimated, however, overall the numbers should work. We are very pleased and more than happy to do the work, however, we have no fall back position from any margin made on the parts. For this reason our estimates need to be somewhat conservative. We have a very good monitoring system and will carefully document the time spent on the job. If it takes less effort than quoted, you will pay less. I will need the car for 3 working days + one day to make any after the fact adjustments. After we do the job, I drive it to settle the suspension and recheck the weights, heights, settings, etc. At any time, you are welcome to stop by to see how the job is going.....>>>>>>
The storyline was good, but the rhyme was less than acceptable. I really don't understand why this problem is happening. Gert seems to have a great kit all sorted out for the 993/C4S and now I'm worried that some problem exists (and does) with my NEW suspension. I don't drive 45 mph either..... I drive very HARD and FAST. This is a worry with the suspension as it presently sits.
The shop owner emailed me to say that he wants to make this 'set up right'. I will certainly give him another chance to correct this potential problem. I gibe him some credit here. The cost is still stuck in my throat, tho. I will see what happens. I'll post the .... hopefully .... end to this saga. Crap.
Here's the first part of the email the shop owner sent me regarding the capability of the shop to do the install of the suspension kit. Hey, I understand that they may have not installed THIS particular kit before, but .... Bilsteins, Monroes, HRs, PSS9s... yada, yada... they gotta all be SIMILAR! I'm bummed.
<<<We have successfully installed suspension kits in 993’s and many other cars. It is important for you to know that to get it right does take a fair amount of time. When it is done correctly, the car is transformed and is fun to drive. If it is just “installed” and details such as heights, alignment settings, weight balancing, etc are compromised for the purpose of “getting it done” the job will not come out right. I refuse to allow sub standard work to go out of our shop or work that our customer is not happy with.
Having said that, here is what I feel comfortable with to know that the job will come out right. Some things take more or less time than estimated, however, overall the numbers should work. We are very pleased and more than happy to do the work, however, we have no fall back position from any margin made on the parts. For this reason our estimates need to be somewhat conservative. We have a very good monitoring system and will carefully document the time spent on the job. If it takes less effort than quoted, you will pay less. I will need the car for 3 working days + one day to make any after the fact adjustments. After we do the job, I drive it to settle the suspension and recheck the weights, heights, settings, etc. At any time, you are welcome to stop by to see how the job is going.....>>>>>>
The storyline was good, but the rhyme was less than acceptable. I really don't understand why this problem is happening. Gert seems to have a great kit all sorted out for the 993/C4S and now I'm worried that some problem exists (and does) with my NEW suspension. I don't drive 45 mph either..... I drive very HARD and FAST. This is a worry with the suspension as it presently sits.
The shop owner emailed me to say that he wants to make this 'set up right'. I will certainly give him another chance to correct this potential problem. I gibe him some credit here. The cost is still stuck in my throat, tho. I will see what happens. I'll post the .... hopefully .... end to this saga. Crap.
06-01-2005, 09:50 PM
#37
Race Director
Hmmmm. None of the above explanation has anything to do with parts "were not as represented and we had to do it twice." It does have to do with "we didn't make any money on the parts."
I know some mechanics don't like to do jobs where they don't also get to sell the parts; that's fine; let them either turn down the job or build in some more time to "do it right." I personally would rather pay for more of their time. But they should do it right. And this guy should know that you don't know anybody who has paid over $1k in labor for this job - it shouldn't be 3X what others have paid.
I know some mechanics don't like to do jobs where they don't also get to sell the parts; that's fine; let them either turn down the job or build in some more time to "do it right." I personally would rather pay for more of their time. But they should do it right. And this guy should know that you don't know anybody who has paid over $1k in labor for this job - it shouldn't be 3X what others have paid.
06-01-2005, 10:59 PM
#39
Burning Brakes
Thread Starter
Hey, guys....
I think this shop has a good reputation. I would not have allowed them to do anything to the car if I tho't for a moment that they were just some crappy place that did lousy work. The shop owner is the PCA president in this area for cripe's sake. I guess that means something, eh...???
They were not keen on Gert's stuff from the get go. "Bilstein doesn't make such a shock"..... and then they called Bilstein USA (of course they don't make this shock....Gert has it custom made!). I bought the stuff from Gert, cuz he's the dude from the board and a guru to boot. The shop owner was not concerned cuz it was from Europe (and he could not make more dollars from an unknown dealer, i.e. Gert). But, the shop owner was sorta pissed that I would order this stuff instead of going with his set up... I don't remember exactly what it was, but think it was the PSS9s.
I don't think they are trying to screw me, I think they are over their heads and didn't rely on Gert's instructions to render a good result.
Hell.... I don't know what to do at this point. I'll take the car back late next week and let them sort it out. If they can't, I guess I'll just get a bit Postal, eh?!
I think this shop has a good reputation. I would not have allowed them to do anything to the car if I tho't for a moment that they were just some crappy place that did lousy work. The shop owner is the PCA president in this area for cripe's sake. I guess that means something, eh...???
They were not keen on Gert's stuff from the get go. "Bilstein doesn't make such a shock"..... and then they called Bilstein USA (of course they don't make this shock....Gert has it custom made!). I bought the stuff from Gert, cuz he's the dude from the board and a guru to boot. The shop owner was not concerned cuz it was from Europe (and he could not make more dollars from an unknown dealer, i.e. Gert). But, the shop owner was sorta pissed that I would order this stuff instead of going with his set up... I don't remember exactly what it was, but think it was the PSS9s.
I don't think they are trying to screw me, I think they are over their heads and didn't rely on Gert's instructions to render a good result.
Hell.... I don't know what to do at this point. I'll take the car back late next week and let them sort it out. If they can't, I guess I'll just get a bit Postal, eh?!
06-01-2005, 11:19 PM
#40
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Have your shop read this thread...I'd be interested to hear his take.
For what it's worth, the parts were drop shipped directly from Gert to the shop I used. They didn't ask or care about making money on the parts. Time is time, labor is labor, a shock is a shock, a sway bar is a sway bar. There is nothing difficult or unusual about these parts that would require 3x the install time...
I remember getting a quote on a 944T clutch install. Clutches are installed every day...they are just as straightforward as a suspension install. Yet one shop quoted me 2x the other. When I questioned it, they acted like I insulted them. And yes, this guy was the ex Pres of the local PCA chapter.
There are far more sleazy shops than honest ones.
For what it's worth, the parts were drop shipped directly from Gert to the shop I used. They didn't ask or care about making money on the parts. Time is time, labor is labor, a shock is a shock, a sway bar is a sway bar. There is nothing difficult or unusual about these parts that would require 3x the install time...
I remember getting a quote on a 944T clutch install. Clutches are installed every day...they are just as straightforward as a suspension install. Yet one shop quoted me 2x the other. When I questioned it, they acted like I insulted them. And yes, this guy was the ex Pres of the local PCA chapter.
There are far more sleazy shops than honest ones.
Last edited by 98993c2s; 06-01-2005 at 11:52 PM.
06-01-2005, 11:39 PM
#41
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I have this setup on order from Gert right now and I'm getting impatient, it's been three weeks and the shocks still haven't been produced by Bilstein in Germany? I'm going to have the most disreputable and unexperienced pcar wrench I know install them ... me. I'll take pics, let you know how long it takes to get it on the car, and let you know if it clunks.
06-02-2005, 01:16 PM
#42
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[QUOTE=Baggerdude]They were not keen on Gert's stuff from the get go. "Bilstein doesn't make such a shock"..... and then they called Bilstein USA (of course they don't make this shock....Gert has it custom made!).QUOTE]
I believe the only thing "Bilstein doesn't make" is the extra threading on the front shocks - otherwise, these are "off the shelf" HDs. And who machines the extra threads for Gert? Bilstein, which is what caused some delay in the delivery of my order.
I think I've also heard that Bilstein has finally taken the decision to make the extra threading (ie: Gert's spec) standard on the HDs, although I don't know the timeline for this.
As a result, while individual parts can be defective, I think there's very little chance that the problem is with Gert's selection of parts and, if it was, my experience just last week is that he's 100% behind his customers.
Regards to all.
I believe the only thing "Bilstein doesn't make" is the extra threading on the front shocks - otherwise, these are "off the shelf" HDs. And who machines the extra threads for Gert? Bilstein, which is what caused some delay in the delivery of my order.
I think I've also heard that Bilstein has finally taken the decision to make the extra threading (ie: Gert's spec) standard on the HDs, although I don't know the timeline for this.
As a result, while individual parts can be defective, I think there's very little chance that the problem is with Gert's selection of parts and, if it was, my experience just last week is that he's 100% behind his customers.
Regards to all.
06-02-2005, 07:41 PM
#43
Burning Brakes
Thread Starter
David in Chi-Town...
I hope you don't think I am critical of Gert or Bilstein. I certainly am not.... on the contrary, Gert has been very supportive of my situation. I believe his set up is 'spot on', otherwise I would have had email directed at him.
I chose the kit because of my conversations with Gert and the Rennlist board. I am secure in my decision.... altho, my shop has jaded my decision, but not because the kit is at fault. It is in the installation I am sure.
Yeassss.... I waited many weeks for the kit to arrive. Bilstein makes "normal shocks" and when they have the time, they make the 'extra threaded' deals. That said, Gert said the wait was for the REAR shocks. Probably because there is not a great call for 993 HDs, but I don't really know the entire deal.
Gert's service was excellent. I found it nearly head spinning that the kit was in Belgium at noon (their time) one day.... and the NEXT day at 10 AM EDT the kit was on my door step!! I can't get a fax to the building next door that fast!!
I am dedicated to the members of this board, their help & opinions, and Gert. What a nice fella Get is..... And I'm impressed with all the responses from members here as well. Thanx....
I hope you don't think I am critical of Gert or Bilstein. I certainly am not.... on the contrary, Gert has been very supportive of my situation. I believe his set up is 'spot on', otherwise I would have had email directed at him.
I chose the kit because of my conversations with Gert and the Rennlist board. I am secure in my decision.... altho, my shop has jaded my decision, but not because the kit is at fault. It is in the installation I am sure.
Yeassss.... I waited many weeks for the kit to arrive. Bilstein makes "normal shocks" and when they have the time, they make the 'extra threaded' deals. That said, Gert said the wait was for the REAR shocks. Probably because there is not a great call for 993 HDs, but I don't really know the entire deal.
Gert's service was excellent. I found it nearly head spinning that the kit was in Belgium at noon (their time) one day.... and the NEXT day at 10 AM EDT the kit was on my door step!! I can't get a fax to the building next door that fast!!
I am dedicated to the members of this board, their help & opinions, and Gert. What a nice fella Get is..... And I'm impressed with all the responses from members here as well. Thanx....
06-05-2005, 02:18 AM
#44
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Bagger...I hope everything gets sorted out for you. This setup is great...it transformed my car from an unpredictable scare ride to a confidence-inspiring thrill.
06-10-2005, 09:23 PM
#45
Burning Brakes
Thread Starter
All seems sorted out.... (whew!!)..
OK.... the suspicious suspension sounds were solved!! I've only driven the 993 a couple hundred miles since my upgraded suspension from Gert was installed a couple weeks ago.
As you may remember.... I had a 'clunking sound' on uneven tarmac and a 'rhythmic clunking' at full lock at low speed as in turning out of the garage or in a parking lot. Clunk, clunk, clunk.... crap!
I made an appointment to see the shop owner today.... he had sent me home following the 'clunking exposed' trip a couple weeks ago. I guess he figured it may 'settle and go away'. It did not.
I was concerned that the front CV joints were 'going'.... expensive and unsafe and it did not clunk before the installation of Gert's M030s, sways and HD Bilsteins.
When I arrived today.... we went for a ride to confirm the noises. Yeasssss.... they were both there. He agreed with me. Matter o'fact, I had not listened to the radio since the install.... listening for the clunking made me nutz!
We went back to the shop... pushed and pulled on the car to see if we could reproduce the sounds. We could not. Up on the lift it went. We could not see anything that should be causing these sounds. I told the owner that I felt that one of the sounds (the BIG clunk when going over uneven road surfaces) was coming from the RIGHT front. So, we pushed, pulled, rotated the wheels, the steering wheel right and left..... didn't hear, feel or see ANYTHING!
While the owner was tending to another matter for a few minutes I ventured under the 993 again and looked 'round with the shop light. He actually WANTED me there to see the procedure and to see that there was nothing wrong with the installation.
I saw a small area on the poly-plastic air deflector that pushes air up to the brakes (I guess) that had a smallish wear patch on it. Sort of a 1/4 of a dime sized half moon shaped area in the middle of the bottom edge. It looked "fresh".... I checked the other side.... SAME DEAL! Hmmmmm.... But, there were no areas on the inner wheels that looked like they rubbed... and if so, they would rub ALL the time. No rhythmic deal .... l ran my fingers along the inner wheel and found a WHEEL WEIGHT.... a bit raised and that, I believed, was causing the 'clunk.... clunk..... clunk' at full lock. Good deal.... no CV joint problem (so far anyway).
I pointed this out to the owner and he (as well as I) was pleased. The area was trimmed to a larger diameter.... to prevent this clunking on full lock. And it did. GREAT...!!
Now, to investigate the clunk when I go over uneven ground.
We could not find anything. So, we decided to take the passenger side front shock off. I pointed out that there was a difference in the number of threads showing on the top mounting of the shock inside the bonnet. I wondered why there was a difference. The shop owner did not know.
The shock was removed.... seemed that everything checked out. We took apart the top of the shock... still nothing. We checked the bearing in the top shock mount... looked OK. Then I said, "why do the bottom threads on the top of the shock look stripped". He didn't think they were.... but we could not pass the stock nut down very far. And, when we checked the shock assembly completely 'bench' together.... the shock mount/bearing assembly rocked a bit. Not much, but it was not tight..... this was not correct, I said. This smallish rocking as the shock threaded shaft knocked against the bearing was what I heard (amplified in the hollow bonnet) as I went over bumps. I doubt if many would have heard either sounds.
He found a new nut.... we tried it on and it went completely down to the bottom. The stocker nut would not. The wholeshebang was reassembled and was tight... we replaced the shock on the car, replaced the brake lines and such, checked the alignment, remounted the wheel.... and we 4 corner balanced the car again.
The car was balanced like a race car.... just a few pounds difference R/L and Ft/Rr... I was happy. BTW, the C4S weighed 3247 pounds with about 3/4 tank of fuel and sans moi.
We went for a drive... no noise on full lock.... no clunking on the uneven road (of which there are many where we drove).
Soooooooooo..... I am very pleased that we found the source of the noises and that they were not serious. The shop owner was extremely helpful in helping me with this potentially serious situation.... CV joints dissolving and such.
We spent about 4 hours under the car.... and we spoke about the initial cost of doing this hook up. He said that the PSS9s were about 1/2 the time to get corner balanced correctly as you didn't have to take the entire suspension loose/off to rotate the collars as he had to do with Gert's set up. When you corner balance the car 'correctly' with Gert's kit, one needs to set the car on the scales.... if it is 'off', then the suspension has to be dismantled somewhat and the collars adjusted diagonally.... then set on the scales again. This is time consuming.
He said that when an 'older Porsche' (like an '86) is done.... it could take 40 hours to replace the shocks/springs/sways.... align the car and corner balance it. It only took about 30 hours to do mine.... plus some more, since when it was set to Gert's specs, the car was about 1/2 inch higher than I wanted. The shop had to redo the wholeshebang to get the car where it "looked GREAT!". Plus, it handles well here too. I think it's at RS height.
Whew......... (and I know this is a longggggggggg post....sorry, it's been a longgggg day as well)... The car handles very well, Gert's kit is comfy too. It's not toooooo harsh, just a bit more than stock.... yeah, it may be a PITA to adjust if you don't get it right the first time.... and the PSS9s may be EZr to do this, but they may be harsher..... and for that, I still choose Gert's kit. It's a great bundle of bits, well sorted out and does the job very well. My problems were just so much 'stuff that happens' sort of things.... Gert's kit and the shop did a great job.
I am now pleased and the 993 looks terrific, rides great and handles very nice. I know that some of you think that the nearly $3K (US) to do this install was a bit much... to say the least. But, I understand what is involved here. I was there for 4 hours as we sorted out the car. This was not EZ to do. I think that those that paid a kewl GRAND to have such a kit installed are extremely lucky. I don't know how this could be done in a day... perhaps I'm just waaay picky.
Anyway, I'm back in action and loaded for bear......!!
Thanx to all for their opinions and help. I appreciate it a great deal.... and my dealer went the "extra mile" in my opinion to do what he did today and for no charge. Kudos to everyone..... !!
As you may remember.... I had a 'clunking sound' on uneven tarmac and a 'rhythmic clunking' at full lock at low speed as in turning out of the garage or in a parking lot. Clunk, clunk, clunk.... crap!
I made an appointment to see the shop owner today.... he had sent me home following the 'clunking exposed' trip a couple weeks ago. I guess he figured it may 'settle and go away'. It did not.
I was concerned that the front CV joints were 'going'.... expensive and unsafe and it did not clunk before the installation of Gert's M030s, sways and HD Bilsteins.
When I arrived today.... we went for a ride to confirm the noises. Yeasssss.... they were both there. He agreed with me. Matter o'fact, I had not listened to the radio since the install.... listening for the clunking made me nutz!
We went back to the shop... pushed and pulled on the car to see if we could reproduce the sounds. We could not. Up on the lift it went. We could not see anything that should be causing these sounds. I told the owner that I felt that one of the sounds (the BIG clunk when going over uneven road surfaces) was coming from the RIGHT front. So, we pushed, pulled, rotated the wheels, the steering wheel right and left..... didn't hear, feel or see ANYTHING!
While the owner was tending to another matter for a few minutes I ventured under the 993 again and looked 'round with the shop light. He actually WANTED me there to see the procedure and to see that there was nothing wrong with the installation.
I saw a small area on the poly-plastic air deflector that pushes air up to the brakes (I guess) that had a smallish wear patch on it. Sort of a 1/4 of a dime sized half moon shaped area in the middle of the bottom edge. It looked "fresh".... I checked the other side.... SAME DEAL! Hmmmmm.... But, there were no areas on the inner wheels that looked like they rubbed... and if so, they would rub ALL the time. No rhythmic deal .... l ran my fingers along the inner wheel and found a WHEEL WEIGHT.... a bit raised and that, I believed, was causing the 'clunk.... clunk..... clunk' at full lock. Good deal.... no CV joint problem (so far anyway).
I pointed this out to the owner and he (as well as I) was pleased. The area was trimmed to a larger diameter.... to prevent this clunking on full lock. And it did. GREAT...!!
Now, to investigate the clunk when I go over uneven ground.
We could not find anything. So, we decided to take the passenger side front shock off. I pointed out that there was a difference in the number of threads showing on the top mounting of the shock inside the bonnet. I wondered why there was a difference. The shop owner did not know.
The shock was removed.... seemed that everything checked out. We took apart the top of the shock... still nothing. We checked the bearing in the top shock mount... looked OK. Then I said, "why do the bottom threads on the top of the shock look stripped". He didn't think they were.... but we could not pass the stock nut down very far. And, when we checked the shock assembly completely 'bench' together.... the shock mount/bearing assembly rocked a bit. Not much, but it was not tight..... this was not correct, I said. This smallish rocking as the shock threaded shaft knocked against the bearing was what I heard (amplified in the hollow bonnet) as I went over bumps. I doubt if many would have heard either sounds.
He found a new nut.... we tried it on and it went completely down to the bottom. The stocker nut would not. The wholeshebang was reassembled and was tight... we replaced the shock on the car, replaced the brake lines and such, checked the alignment, remounted the wheel.... and we 4 corner balanced the car again.
The car was balanced like a race car.... just a few pounds difference R/L and Ft/Rr... I was happy. BTW, the C4S weighed 3247 pounds with about 3/4 tank of fuel and sans moi.
We went for a drive... no noise on full lock.... no clunking on the uneven road (of which there are many where we drove).
Soooooooooo..... I am very pleased that we found the source of the noises and that they were not serious. The shop owner was extremely helpful in helping me with this potentially serious situation.... CV joints dissolving and such.
We spent about 4 hours under the car.... and we spoke about the initial cost of doing this hook up. He said that the PSS9s were about 1/2 the time to get corner balanced correctly as you didn't have to take the entire suspension loose/off to rotate the collars as he had to do with Gert's set up. When you corner balance the car 'correctly' with Gert's kit, one needs to set the car on the scales.... if it is 'off', then the suspension has to be dismantled somewhat and the collars adjusted diagonally.... then set on the scales again. This is time consuming.
He said that when an 'older Porsche' (like an '86) is done.... it could take 40 hours to replace the shocks/springs/sways.... align the car and corner balance it. It only took about 30 hours to do mine.... plus some more, since when it was set to Gert's specs, the car was about 1/2 inch higher than I wanted. The shop had to redo the wholeshebang to get the car where it "looked GREAT!". Plus, it handles well here too. I think it's at RS height.
Whew......... (and I know this is a longggggggggg post....sorry, it's been a longgggg day as well)... The car handles very well, Gert's kit is comfy too. It's not toooooo harsh, just a bit more than stock.... yeah, it may be a PITA to adjust if you don't get it right the first time.... and the PSS9s may be EZr to do this, but they may be harsher..... and for that, I still choose Gert's kit. It's a great bundle of bits, well sorted out and does the job very well. My problems were just so much 'stuff that happens' sort of things.... Gert's kit and the shop did a great job.
I am now pleased and the 993 looks terrific, rides great and handles very nice. I know that some of you think that the nearly $3K (US) to do this install was a bit much... to say the least. But, I understand what is involved here. I was there for 4 hours as we sorted out the car. This was not EZ to do. I think that those that paid a kewl GRAND to have such a kit installed are extremely lucky. I don't know how this could be done in a day... perhaps I'm just waaay picky.
Anyway, I'm back in action and loaded for bear......!!
Thanx to all for their opinions and help. I appreciate it a great deal.... and my dealer went the "extra mile" in my opinion to do what he did today and for no charge. Kudos to everyone..... !!