jford

Not to hijack this thread but I have to say Jason, that you continue to amaze me with your posts! You are truly an asset to the board, thanks. Love the Spicoli avetar as well.

Jamie

Oh, to stay on topic...I have the LWF and love it...love the mechanical chatter as well. I understand that you can adjust the 95 to eliminate stalling with the LWF and would go that route instead of the mid weight version.

Terry Adams

Same here. My wife says it sounds like a race car.

Sumtoc

Understand that there are several things to address the stalling issue with MY95 like mine, including ISV mod, chip mapping and even "driving style adjustments". All of these will not eliminate the stalling problem in every case, which is why I am considering the MWF. I have installed LWFs in other cars (my M3 most recently) and I understand the benefits.

Sounds like I need to call Andial to find out if I can remove their added piece from a MWF and revert to a LWF.

Post from Carlos seems to confirm that the RS parts will work with either the LWF or MWF, but can anyone confirm that the same is true for the 964 MWF that Jason suggests?

Dudley

Jamie,
My thoughts exactly. Jason has become one of those "go to" guys.

dhicks

I seem to remember that you can actually go to a LFW on the MY95 as long as you use the chip from Steve and have some sort of tweeking to the ISV....cant remember all details but if you look back in the archives you may find it and then you may be ok

Sumtoc

Read all the posts and even spoke with Steve about it, but still considering the MWF.

FWIW, I spoke with Andial, you can convert a LWF to MW but not the reverse. Seems as though they drill out some of the threaded holes in the LWF to mount the extra piece to make it a MWF and those holes are then no longer available to be used in the LWF configuration.

But can anyone confirm that the 964 MWF (964-102-239-00) Jason mentions above can be used in a 993 with the RS clutch package? Anyone know that this has been sucessfully done before?

JasonAndreas

Since my original post the Porsche MWF was put on a scale and weighed in at 12 lbs (exactly the same as the LWF). The starter ring and rubber centered clutch supposedly increase the weight to the 19 pounds that the Andial MWF weighs but I don't know anyone that has weighed the starter ring or the rubber centered clutch, it was just an explanation someone had after I posted to the 964 forum the actual weight of the Porsche MWF. On the newer non-MY89 G50 bellhousing I think there is also a 5mm spacing issue. On paper (took measurements) it doesn't work. It might possibly work if you mounted the starter ring onto the front of the pressure plate and not between the flywheel and pressure plate. If someone wants to try it I've included a list of all the parts you need but be aware that as of this summer PCNA has instituted a 15% restocking fee for non-defective parts. The guide tube and release fork are identical to what you already have. The other issue comes from using the rubber centered clutch and pressure plate on a higher powered 993. A LOT of 993 owners with LWFs are using regular 964 pressure plates so it should handle the increase in power but your spending money for zero improvements. If it was my car I would stick with the Andial MWF or the genuine LWF, there are too many unknowns.
If you decide to go with a LWF and have a MY95 don't waste your money on an aftermarket chip solution, they do not work despite what their advertisements say. If your car stalls (not all do) the only "solution" is to adjust the ISV using Tom's instructions.


950-116-023-03 (1) pressure plate
950-116-012-52 (1) clutch disc (rubber centered carrier plate)
950-116-143-01 (1) starter ring
900-067-045-02 (9) cheese head screws M8 x 80

950-116-813-06 (1) guide tube
N-033-040-1 (2) screw M6 x 14
950-116-080-08 (1) release bearing
950-116-086-06 (1) release fork
950-116-715-01 (2) release fork bushing

950-116-710-04 (1) operating shaft
999-113-418-40 (2) operating shaft gasket
999-201-339-00 (1) operating shaft bushing
999-201-365-00 (1) operating shaft bushing
950-116-725-00 (1) operating shaft cover

000-043-024-00 (1) Olista Longtime 3EP

964-102-239-00 (1) Midweight Flywheel
931-102-111-00 (1) ball bearing (throwout)
930-102-206-00 (9) cheese head screw

Porsche MWF -- Ian Warnock


Porsche MWF -- Ian Warnock


Porsche LWF -- Mine

Sumtoc

Jason, thanks so much for the detailed response. I know it took some time/effort and really appreciate it.

Since the ISV mod is not a 100% fix (or so I understand), I will probably go with the Andial MWF.

viperbob

Sumtoc,

I have installed dozens of '95 993s and in 80-90% there is no stalling. To fix even if it is an issue is very minor. Don't be scared off doing the LWF because you think you'll have issues. The Andial flywheel is expensive, and you only want to do this once.

Jim Morton

Sumtoc:

Soory to be late to this post.

Also, this is sort of a long reply, but as a previous owner of a MY95 C2, I can tell you my own decision rationale for the flywheel / clutch package I chose...

Please use it for what it is worth...

After considering the options, I elected to go the MWF from Andial on my C2 along with the OEM RS clutch. I also plan to use the MWF on my TT, when I end up doing its clutch sometime in the future. My reasoning is somewhat different that what has been expressed so far. I hope it is helpful.

1. When looking at this mod, my primary interest was to lose the dual mass flywheel system, simply due to known issues with the rubber binding of the flywheel assembly over time. I wanted something more directly connected than the feel associated with the dual mass setup. This said....

2. To do the work ideally, I would have really liked to run all of the reciprocating balance calcs on the 993 engine as I am sure Porsche had its reason for the weight of the dual mass unit on the 3.6 engine. My concerns were based on crank harmonics throughout the RPM ranges at various loads other than WOT accereration runs.

3. Not having this data, I looked at what cause / effect the lighter flywheel will have for me as driver along with how I use my P-cars. From a pure acceleration stand point, the LWF with its getting rid of as much mass as possible seems like the best deal. However, does this simple weight loss account for all purposes for what the flywheel does for an engine? No.

4. Considering the I like to drive my cars in lots of different modes, normal, backroads, track and rally, I had concerns with the reports of the idle control and light throttle modulation associated with the LWF. For me, it went beyond a question of "if I was enough driver to handle the LWF"... As example, in many of my rallies, I need the car to "creep" along in first gear. Given the reports, I had worries about getting too light. I needing the car to be tractable at low throttle settings and low speed.

Considering all of the above, I elected to go with the mid weight unit as it accomplished my goal of losing the dual mass, yet also had good reports of having a nice, stable idle. I still had concerns about not knowing the balance calcs, but I trusted Andial to not get too light.

My impressions after the fact confirmed another associated issue which is clutch actuation speed. IMHO, the hydraulic clutch is not a fast enough system, to take full advantage of a LWF. I have seen much better clutch actuation systems on other cars I have had. To this point, even with the MWF, it was pretty easy to get your feet ahead of the clutch. Given this observation, I am not sure how effective the LWF would be over the MWF in actual hard driving situations, that is beyond the simple difference in theoretical WOT accleration...

I hope the above helps !

$0.02