fbfisher

FYI, the pic of the girl standing next to her red Z8 appears to have been taken at one of our usual So Cal Fun Run Canyon stops - "Top of the World" - populated by all manner of exotic car and bike on any given sunday.

p_carfan

Simply.......Z8 No thanks & ditto that on the Jagawar.

993 Priceless .

ken garchow

how about an 89 porsche speedster?
964 speedster or american roadster?

Robert Linton

Personally, I have the Alpina/Cartridge version and I like it very much -- not as a replacement for a Porsche but in its own right.

midcont

my father has owned a z8 since early 2000. he got one of the first ones in the country after waiting for it for over 2 years.
The car has about 25k miles now and has held up very well over time. he has never had any serious service issues to speak of.

I drive the car from time to time and enjoy it. It is a big car when you first get in it and the long hood is imposing. the faster you drive it though the smaller it gets. The engine, which has plenty of power in the m5 works even better in this car because it has less weight to haul.
We attended the z8 driving school at the BMW performance center which was a great 2 day experience. BMW pays for everything except the flight and gives you and a guest a car, along with 4 other pairs for the weekend, and lets you tear the cars up.
The second day of the class you are let loose on a huge asphalt lot for a autocross in which they time you against the other participants. The car can really open up here and you can hang the tail out all you want. I can tell you that around the course, the car is light on its feet and very controllable. These cars were riding on aftermarket mich pilots rather then the stock runflats. This is a switch that should be mandatory as it changes the ride and handling considerably.

As far as styling goes, well thats subjective. I think the shape is beautiful and the interior is totally unique. After 5 years the car still makes you look back at it everytime you walk away. Everywhere you go, people are awed by it still. Not many non-exotic cars can do that 5 years after they come out.

That said its still mostly a highway cruiser rather then a mountain carver. It's not a sports car per se but is a GT. My father enjoys the car still and no other cars have piqued his interest as much since.

Robert Linton

Although I rarely comment on interior appearance, I think my Alpina Z8 has one of the nicest production car interiors I have seen in many years -- particularly with the slight modifications in my vehicle including red piping on the black seats and headrests, the sunvisor mirror doors covered in leather and the carbon fiber inner door sills.

Steve 96C4S

Thanks Midcont for your excellent reply. I think you've summed up through the eyes of your dad, why I love this car so much. It's really a special car, and I know it's still priced way too high. I know you could buy a used exotic that would much "more" car for the same amount, but I'm still drawn to it.

Robert Linton: You're a very fortunate man to have all those amazing cars! Beautiful interior on that Z8. Thanks for posting the pic.


Steve

Robert Linton

Thank you. The more interesting parts, however, are the, albeit relatively minor, performance upgrades that take 150+ pounds off the car and enhance overall performance, e.g., the carbon fiber/titanium drive shaft/CV (prop shaft) that takes 5+ kg of rotating weight from the vehicle.

aam993

Very good taste indeed! And very nice titanium Litespeed(in the background if I'm not mistaken) too!

ringmeister

I've had both, a 993 C4S (recently sold to good friend and list member) as well as a Z8 (recently acquired now that prices have become more reasonable). I can also make a comparison with my GT3 and Lotus Elise if anyone wants.

The Z8 is more of a cruiser. Someone mentioned that it feels big and it does compared to a 993 or even a 996 for that matter. You sit really far back which is the opposite of a 911 so that takes a lot to get use to. Once you get rid of the crappy run flat tires and start to push the car, you find out that it is very forgiving. You can just apply power in the corners to induce power oversteer. It's a hoot. The power is intoxicating, the car will spin its tires shifting from 2nd to 3rd. The GT3 is faster but the Z8 feels stronger due to its torque. The throttle response in sport mode is right there. In the 993 you feel more connected to the road almost like in an early 911 but without the ever present fear that it's going to swap ends. The power of the 993 is all up in the rev range, not ideal for US driving but ooh the sound of the air cooled engine at full song is the best. The quality of construction and the stiffness of the Z8 are amazing and have to be seen to be believed. The car has no noticeable cowl shake. The BMW engineers did their homework on this one, once you drive it you understand how the company lost money on this project. Of course the build quality of the 993 is exemplary, you can't match the paint quality of those solvent base paints. The interior of the Z8 is fantastic IMO. EVERYTHING is covered in leather and the stitching is perfect. I love the way they did the retro look dash. The radio sucks but the navigation is simple and effective. What can you say, the 993 dash is pure 911... Simple and Just about perfect with no gimmicks.

They are two very different cars. I always wanted a Z8 from the first moment I saw one but there was no way I was going to spend the $20k-$50k that dealers and ebay sellers were asking (and getting). The cars are at reasonable prices now in fact I think they are well worth the $$ for what they are trading at. As Ferris said, "If you have the means, I highly suggest you pick one up."

CP

Ringmeister,

Great stable. Yes, please tell about the Elise. Few people own that car, so a comparo is hard to come by.

Thanks.

CP

ringmeister

The Elise is about as pure a sports car as you're going to find that is road legal. Being only about 1900lbs., the 195hp is more than enough and it revs to over 8000. The cars strong suit is really the way it handles... like a go kart. the steering is so quick through the tiny wheel that even a slight movement of the wheel will have you changing lanes in an instant. It feels just like a Formula Ford but with a body around it. The drawback is that the ride is super stiff. The GT3 by comparison feels like a Lincoln Town Car. I got the sport pack so it's even stiffer than the regular car but I've been told that it's really only 10% stiffer. The tires are stickier though, almost an R rating.

There are some guys driving these daily in California, God bless 'em as getting in and out requires the skills of an experienced contortionist. With the top off it's much easier thankfully. Once inside there's plenty of room even for 6+ footers. The seats are plenty wide for the typical American Male physique as well. The problem is the pedal area. The brake and gas are so close together that I had to buy some narrower driving shoes as my size 12s didn't cut it. The dead pedal is about the size of a small cell phone. Shifting is direct but a bit notchy, not the best cable shifter I have used (they could learn from VW on this). The brakes are great but what did you expect for such a light car. The A/C works quite well which is surprising and the stereo sounds decent.

The car is small. It feels a lot smaller once you are on the highway where you look at the wheels on SUVs. Forget big rigs, they tower above. You really need to drive defensively as many people do not see you and the ones that do can't stop staring. Best to get a bright color.

Overall I think the quality of materials and the fit and finish is much better than I expected. The fiberglass body is straight and the gaps are uniform. The paint is also well done. The cars are basically hand built and you can tell that a lot of time went into building these. I think it's a bargain for the performance and handling you get. The Corvette is probably a better bargain but I think the Lotus is built better and on a tight course it would kill the Vette or most anything else for that matter. I haven' had the chance to track mine yet so it's just conjecture for now but I have heard that a stock Elise will turn 57 seconds at Lime Rock. If that's true, it's amazing.

CP

Ringmeister,

Thanks for the write up. One of these days, I need to drive an Elise, and also a MR2 Spider. That's a very light car as well, and mid-engine layout.

CP

Monique

Here is an Opel Speedster.

Powered by a 2.2 liter 16 valve Opel engine, it uses the chassis of the Elise; it is in fact built by Lotus to Opel standards.

People who have owned both the older Elise and a Speedster say the Speedster is better built. The new Elise is another matter.

Available too with 2.0 liter with TC for 200 HP. Then easily chippable to 250 HP

ringmeister

Let me get this straight, the Lotus factory builds the Opel better than their own car?