PhilW

I am not sure why people think that if they crash their car into the Kink at Road America, I as a USAA membe should have to should pay for their car? One of the great things about USAA is their low premiums and when I call they answer the phone .

I started doing DEs less than a year ago and assumed my insurance company won't cover damages to the car once I exit the pit. As a result I try to only drive at 8/10th and I am reasonably certain my earnings from prize money winnings are no less than those with the fastest times of the day. So what if I can only do a 2.53 at RA, I know I'm a novice but I still have fun. If you are uncomfortable risking your car, get a less expensive track car. That is why I bought a 964 and if I get into Club Racing it will be in a 924/944, it doesn't have to have 300 hp to be fun (but it doen't either). DEs are just way too much fun <img src="graemlins/jumper.gif" border="0" alt="[jumper]" /> to let insurance get in the way. <img src="graemlins/burnout.gif" border="0" alt="[burnout]" />

Curtis - '97 Targa

[quote]Originally posted by PHILW:
<strong>I am not sure why people think that if they crash their car into the Kink at Road America, I as a USAA membe should have to should pay for their car? One of the great things about USAA is their low premiums and when I call they answer the phone. </strong><hr></blockquote>

The point that I'm trying to make to USAA is that DE participants represent an overall lower risk than their general risk pool (better, more involved drivers are less likely to crash on the street). The lower risk more than offsets the rare claim made by a DE particpant. So, if this change forces DE particpants to get their insurance elsewhere, USAA has INCREASED their risk and you, as a USAA member, will pay the price.

Wish I had some data to back up my words .

Flying Finn

Could it be possible to do a 'group buy'?

I mean if we get large enough group, maybe some insurance company will listen?

Or am I dreaming..? <img src="graemlins/sleep.gif" border="0" alt="[sleep]" />

David '96 993

Phil,
I agree that USAA has great service, and when (unfortunately...stolen vehicle) I have used their services in the past they have made the experience about as good as possible.

How one handles this recent change is entirely up to them. My position is that I am not comfortable even driving 8/10's without insurance as there are too many things that are out of your control. Look at Todds situation with the 996 ahead of him dumping fluid. I have also in two years of doing this seen 3 rollovers and all were at well orginized events. They were all driver error, but even at 8/10ths small errors can have large consequences. I pinched an apex in June, were there was a slight irregularity on the track and had my first OTE. I am fairly novice at this, but felt that I was not pushing it. @#$^&*% happens...

I have a call into American Collectors Insurance to give me that peace of mind. I was not always this cautious, but after having children I have become more conservative.

Curtis - '97 Targa

I just received a predictable response to my first letter to USAA Corporate...had a few platitudes about appreciating my business and concern but the decision stands. They only encourage "Defensive Driving" courses.

What is more defensive than car control?

Still haven't heard from the Regional VP...

Curtis

Flying Finn

Thanks Curtis,

Keep us posted.

Also, you can mention that if they cover DE's, they'd most likely get quite a bit new customers.

I know I would be one.

E. J. - 993 Alumni

Curtis,

I just got my 6 month USAA renewal notice and found two mentions of what to me are new exclusions to the policy. They are not the same as yours though and I wonder if I am still covered at a DE?

[quote] by USAA
<strong>Loss to your covered auto or any non-owned auto, locatied inside a facility designed for racing, for the purpose of:

a. COmpeting in; or

b. Practicing or preparing for;

any prearranged or organized racing or speed contest.</strong><hr></blockquote>

That exact quote is in two exclusion sections: Part D - Coverage for Damage To Your Auto and Part A - Liability Coverage

Curtis, I wonder if you also have these excluions, as it seems they are geared towards racing since they use the words "racing" and "contest".

Also very interesting was a part under Section B - Air bag and seat belt benefits:

[quote] by USAA
<strong>We will provide the benefits described only if, at the time ofthe accident, Medical Expense Benefits was provided by the policy and the insured for whom benefits are sought was:

1. Wearing a seat belt, or
2. Wearing a seat belt and occupying a seat in a automobile in which he was protected by an air bag, and...</strong><hr></blockquote>

Let me close by saying that I am not a lawyer, and this is the first time I have read this document this closely, so I don't know if the above quotes are new or not.

Finally, I think each person should assume that when they go to the track they are not covered by their normal insurance, unless you have explicitly received in writing a letter from your insurance company stating otherwise. That is the only way to be sure.

E. J.

Paul in Chicago

Gentlemen,
In August of 2000 I called USAA to see about coverage. I assumed I was not covered. The agent I talked to mailed me a copy of the language that's not normally sent in the policy packet.

It reads:
RACING: Cars used in sporting events involving skill, endurance, dexterity and driving ability are acceptable. Examples of such acceptable sporting events include gymkhana, autocross, and rallies sponsored by sports car clubs. NOT ACCEPTABLE, however, is any vehicle used in any type of speed contest, including motor cross, hill climbs, time trials, "enduro events" and actual races.

The key words in this paragraph are "driving ability" and "contest." Drivers' Ed is not a contest. Nor is it a race.

Bottom line is they SHOULD cover you. They may initially say they won't, but after you argue with them, they should. Another idea for you is to get a second opinion. At USAA you will almost never talk to the same salesperson. Call again and ask for the agent that answers to read you (and fax/mail you) the paragraph on "RACING."


Paul

brandon

Paul,

I was essentially "told" the same thing that was sent to you when I inquired more than a year ago(you mentioned Aug 2000, which is more than 2 years ago. Did you mean 2002?)

The change came when I updated my policy a few months ago.

I haven't had any luck with any insurers thus far, but still looking.

Curtis - '97 Targa

Paul,
I'm afraid that two-year old policy information may be out-dated. The language in my policy, and the two letters I received questioning the policy, were pretty clear: no activity on a closed track is covered.

I wish it was different....

Matt Vaughan

Just following up on this a bit, as I currently am insured by USAA. I visited the American Collectors web site, but noticed that TX is not covered at this time. What to do!?!

staplcl

I also have USAA. Seems like there is a few of us around and we should collectively be able to see if we can get a clear message from USAA. They have always been reasonable, perhaps we should all send letters or communicate with them?

Curtis - '97 Targa

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">Originally posted by staplcl:
<strong>I also have USAA. Seems like there is a few of us around and we should collectively be able to see if we can get a clear message from USAA. They have always been reasonable, perhaps we should all send letters or communicate with them?</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">Their message to me was exceedingly clear: They don't cover Driver's Ed. I appealed, they didn't change their mind.

Right now, I'm not covered if I do a track event.

C

swftiii

Curtis and everyone,

I have gotten the same response in the past and was unable to get them to change their stance either.

I guess the answer is "Keep it on the pavement".

Skip

Matt Vaughan

I wanted to follow up with an update on this, as I contacted USAA to get a definitive answer on this. The woman who I spoke with of course had no idea what a DE was, so I explained it to her, saying that it in no way represented a "racing" scenario since it's not timed. She told me that she would have to get back to me after doing some research.

Well, she called back today, a MONTH later. She says not only would they not cover DE's, but that they would drop my policy if I was to take my car to a track! What the h*ll is that about?!?! This almost sounds to me like they would drop me, even if I had a separate policy for track usage! Now I'm figuring they've "tagged" my account just for ASKING!