Midnight Rider

This is in response to Randy/paradise.

Jastx

msch,

Why do you say that? I see you have the US vs the ROW m030s.

paradisenb

Seams the adjustability is a bid plus. I was kind of thinking that, at least why not for the same money.
Randy M says his are jarring. Can this be adjusted out?
I guess if I'm going to change the sways I might as well do the adjustables. Are the TRGs much more than the ROW M030s?

akolodesh: I am not familiar with the JIC/Cross Coilovers. Anyone else know anything about them?

DJF1: I drove Chris C's car with H&Rs, it rode nice. I did/do not have enough experience to make any judgements. I have been told this a very nice option for the street.

Why would I not want the have the adjustablility?

DJF1

Yeah, I love my setup for the cabrio...

In regards to the adjustability issue:
You have already so many things to play with, i doubt it that anyone ,unless they are racing, need all these adjustments!!!You can change the car's attidute in so many different ways just by playing with a pound or 2 of air pressure! If you get the PSS9 or the Cross you will have at least 9 adjustments on each corner! Fine tuning the car is not an easy feat. The more adjustments the more it gets complicated! The handling of the car is not only affected by the setup but by a shape of a corner, the tarmac, the camber of the road, bumpiness etc.
No one setup is good for everything. Plus if you are going that fast as to provoke the extreme characteristics of the car on the road you are driving too fast anyway.
At any rate you need to learn the car. Even if you go on the track fiddling with the suspension, sways etc will never make you understand how the car really behaves! Remember when you adjust...you need to do one thing at a time. Now imagine 9 adjustments per corner, 3 rear sway, 5 front sway, pounds off, pounds on, camber settings, ride height, corner weights etc...and each combination has a different effect! Now do the math!!!
I went with the non adjustable ones ( H&R and M030 sways) just because of that. I corner balanced the car and then I was off to the track to learn it. it sure paid dividends as i concentrated on learning how to drive the car instead of how my sways are set.
Now I have triple adjustable JRZ's, adjustable sways, camber plates etc on my race car and still I have not started playing around with doing any change...

Its up to you really, but that is what I learned...

Jastx

I have to agree with Danny. I don't track my car, but as nice as PSS9 sounds in some posts, to me more complexity just means more to go wrong and I've seen plenty of PSS9 posts about that -- from twisting to knocking on turns to adjustment ***** not having positive detents to freewheeling to the ***** just plain falling off. I am unconvinced about PSS9 quality. Rather than adjustability, I want the best all around street solution that I can put on and forget about.

I currently have stock suspension and have read every post about M030 and Bilsteins. I had Bilsteins on a previous car and was disappointed. They rode harsher than I expected and actually raised the car higher. Before I do anything I'm going to find someone who has done it and get a ride or a drive in their car.

Ben from Plano has the JIC suspension. I got to drive his car on the relatively smooth roads around here and it felt fine. He directed me over a railroad track and it was jarring. For street, you need a suspension that can deal with road irregularities as opposed to the smoothness of many tracks.

Baggerdude

John.... I agree with you. I would like to "lower my car" to ROW specs... and, in doing so, I would like to 'enhance' the suspension. But, I don't wanna harsher ride..... the stocker C4S suspension, albeit 8 years and 26K miles old, is harsh enuf. Yeah, I have had several 911's previously so don't give me crap about this is not a Caddy....

I don't know what to do. I'm thinkin' about Gert's setup, but also... I don't know what my C4S comes with. Perhaps some of the ROW stuff would be somewhat redundant. I don't know, but hope to hook up some sort of lowering kit/suspension deal in the spring.

Cheers.............. BAGGER

paradisenb

I guess my whole point is to lower the car and improve the handling. I could stand it a little stiffer, but I don't want it to ride like the 911. That car is rough even with stock torsion bars. I like the ride quality with the stock setup, but I know it could corner better and the ride height just doesn't cut it for me. It doesn't look tough enough.

Danny makes a good point about complicating things. I'm going to drive this car on the street not on the track. Chance are good I will sell the 911 and buy a 1995 993 for driving events. I just don't want to buy a fixed setup and find I'm not happy and have no affordable options for change.
Anyone with different setup from stock live near Atlanta? I would like to experience more setups before buying.

Ray Calvo

I have mine on the softest setting; still harsh. M030 shocks w/ Euro springs were fine.

I also have the M030 sway bars.

Then again, I think PA is ranked as having the worst roads in the country by the 18-wheelrs.

paradisenb

Ray. Did your setup significantly improve handling?

chris walrod

Keep in mind the PSS9's are only rebound adjustable. Bump rates are fixed by Bilstein..FWIW

TroyN

I thought adjusting PSS9's affected both bounce and rebound.

I had RoW M030 previously and I think the damping quality of the PSS9's is so much better, it feels smoother than the M030's. On full soft the PSS9's are pretty wallowy, practically Caddy-like.

The nice thing is you can crank the stiffness up and now it rides nice and firm!

As far as the ability to adjust, maybe you don't change settings all the time, but it's very nice to have the OPTION of changing something. Isn't that why we have that slippery slope? It's the pursuit of something better and different that keeps so many of us busy with "improvements". I know that if I didn't go with the PSS9's, I'd always wonder what the car could or would be like if I could just change the stiffness a little. As someone that mucked around with trying different things with the stock and M030 suspension (and I know there are others with similar stories), my advice would be to get the PSS9's and be happy (and save $$).

DJD

Well I have not driven a C2S with PSS9s but I did just get the ROW MO30 springs and bars with Bilstein HDs and I love it. Its much better than stock and my stock set up only had 15K miles. I looked at the PSS9 but felt it was over kill for the street and was told that its not a 2 second deal to adjust them. Besides I am saving for 997 based GT3 and Ill need every extra penny.
Just my $ .02

fbfisher

No, I got them through www.schatzmotorsport.com who also did the install. They were WAY cheaper than Gert for either the ROW M030 or the Pss-9. The difference in price between what I paid and either option through Gert was substantial and made the decision very easy.

The upgrade is well worth it. Makes the car WAY more fun to drive, which seems impossible, but true. For my application the PSS-9 is a waste of money, plus, I like the idea of keeping "mods" limited to Porsche products.

OldGuy

My PSS9's were a big improvement over my shot stock M030 setup. and the TRG sway bars
are even better. the PSS9 were NOT harsh compared to what I had or a Z06 Corvette I have driven.
you wont be disappointed with PSS9's BUT I advise going to the TRG bars at the same time because
the PSS9 but a bigger load on your stock drop links.

abar

Just wondering why no one bothers with the standard ROW euro suspension, or at least the springs with quality dampers. Gets rid of that SUV ride height, rides very well and is a great compromise for road use.

Thanks to a fellow rennlist member, I got to ride in a 993 with the M033 lowered springs and HD dampers. That also had a lovely ride and I'm sure would handle well enough for most on the road.

Al.