Track Cars- Philisophical discussions with me, myself, an you all.
10-06-2004, 07:33 PM
#1
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Track Cars- Philisophical discussions with me, myself, an you all.
Look maybe the adrenalin will wear off but this weekend bit me hard. alot of it had to do with you all, my Rennlist buddies. I love to have outings with my family and that one was right up there with any of those. But look at my thought process now.
I have a TT, what do I do with it? its a lot of money sitting in my garage, if I get a track car where and when to I drive the TT? do I sell it? that might kill me. I love that car. If I track the TT it will devalue it wont it? can I get it to some level of trackdom and the reverse it? If I sold it I could buy a NICE track car, trailer, (I already have a great tow vehicle), spares, two pit babes, and have a ton of money left over. Enough to buy a custom drivers suit like Steve OFE's, But no TT. Man I hate when this happens during football season.
I have a TT, what do I do with it? its a lot of money sitting in my garage, if I get a track car where and when to I drive the TT? do I sell it? that might kill me. I love that car. If I track the TT it will devalue it wont it? can I get it to some level of trackdom and the reverse it? If I sold it I could buy a NICE track car, trailer, (I already have a great tow vehicle), spares, two pit babes, and have a ton of money left over. Enough to buy a custom drivers suit like Steve OFE's, But no TT. Man I hate when this happens during football season.
10-06-2004, 07:50 PM
#2
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Put lots of 3M on the car, drive it at 8/10 and enjoy it. Yes, there will be more maintenance, but it will be a lot cheaper than buying a track car. It will be especially fun if you have a tow vehicle and a trailer.
10-06-2004, 07:53 PM
#3
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I wish I could give you advice, OG, but you know better than anyone here that I'm stuck in a similar situation. But, I would say that if you were going to just track the car (no club racing) then stick with your TT. If you had planned on going club racing, then you should get a dedicated track car, IMHO.
I tell you what, Paul. Keep your TT and I promise to join you on a future DE or POC event. I just need to get my shocks & springs first. Deal?
I tell you what, Paul. Keep your TT and I promise to join you on a future DE or POC event. I just need to get my shocks & springs first. Deal?
10-06-2004, 07:57 PM
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Martin - please check your email. Thanks, buddy.
Rich
Rich
10-06-2004, 08:07 PM
#6
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944 spec racer (that someone else built up). that sounds like a great series you guys have out there.
The entire car is probably cheaper than a rebuild on your TT motor.
The entire car is probably cheaper than a rebuild on your TT motor.
10-06-2004, 08:20 PM
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Mike can I get a HWFMR banner to put up in my camp like TomTurtle has??
of course youre right too. BTW I meant fun with all my HWFMR buddies!!
of course youre right too. BTW I meant fun with all my HWFMR buddies!!
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10-06-2004, 08:22 PM
#8
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I just recently got a race car myself. I got a spec racer ford. After racing that car, I do not want to go back to tracking my 993. There are no worries about balling it up and not havng a ride home anymore. You can really focus on pushing your own and the cars limits without worry. With that being said, I have no regrets about still having my 993. It is my daily driving and I love it. I may still track it a couple times a year, perhaps instruct in it. However, I would not push it like I would in the SRF. Seeing that this was your fist DE ( I think), I think you still have plenty of safe speed left in your car. In my opinion, when tracking a car like a TT as a beginner you are focusing more on getting confidence in the car, experience on track, and getting comfortable at with speed than pushing the limit. If I were in your shoes, I would keep the TT. Track it some more and see how you feel with more experience. You will know when you really want and need a track car. You may also determine if you want to race or just do DE's which could then influence what you want to do.
10-06-2004, 08:34 PM
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TJ I think that is the smart thing to do. Track it some more and see how things go, plus I would be able to keep on the mod trail! If I bought a track car mods to the TT would stop dead!
10-06-2004, 08:43 PM
#10
Race Director
Paul,
I'm not a track guy so feel free to ignore anything I say. But here's my two cents.
(1) Decide for yourself, realistically, how many track days you can do a year. How many years in a row. This can affect everything else. Consider your kids' ages, wife's desires, and family budget rationally. If it's a few days, I'd say track the tt. If you keep Jauder, Kim and John's track schedules, I say dedicated car. The wear and tear will bleed you dry in a tt. Not to mention the booboos.
(2) If you go dedicated track car, either go the cheap route and stay there, (spec. Miata) or start at the top (Radical). Getting tweeners and gradually move up the food-chain is a hugely expansive proposition.
(3) No matter what you decide, be as SAFE as you can be: cage, 6-point belt, fuel cell, fire supression system etc. This consideration alone may lead you to a track car. Modifying your tt to this extent can kill it's street function, and resale value.
Tracking can be VERY expansive if done properly. To some people (Kim, Mooty, Jauder, Bob, the list goes on), it's worth every penny. You have to ask yourself if that's your case. Hope this helps.
CP
I'm not a track guy so feel free to ignore anything I say. But here's my two cents.
(1) Decide for yourself, realistically, how many track days you can do a year. How many years in a row. This can affect everything else. Consider your kids' ages, wife's desires, and family budget rationally. If it's a few days, I'd say track the tt. If you keep Jauder, Kim and John's track schedules, I say dedicated car. The wear and tear will bleed you dry in a tt. Not to mention the booboos.
(2) If you go dedicated track car, either go the cheap route and stay there, (spec. Miata) or start at the top (Radical). Getting tweeners and gradually move up the food-chain is a hugely expansive proposition.
(3) No matter what you decide, be as SAFE as you can be: cage, 6-point belt, fuel cell, fire supression system etc. This consideration alone may lead you to a track car. Modifying your tt to this extent can kill it's street function, and resale value.
Tracking can be VERY expansive if done properly. To some people (Kim, Mooty, Jauder, Bob, the list goes on), it's worth every penny. You have to ask yourself if that's your case. Hope this helps.
CP
10-06-2004, 09:10 PM
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Paul;
Here is my take on the matter.
I'm in the same boat as you.
Am I going to RACE it. No.
Can I track the snot out of it and keep it nice? Perhaps. It's an 8 year old car with 47000 miles on it.
I have the front of the car covered in 3M.
Realistically, I have my cake and eat it. I drive Grace to school and do the canyon runs. I get to drive this FINE car all the darn time.
When I want to go to the track, I pull out the kiddie seat, put in my harness bar, pull out my carpets, pop on my bypasses and off I go. Every time I come back amazed at the car's capabilities. It was built for this.
This weekend was my 8th and 9th track day ever. I'm starting to improve.
That being said, I budget for front end resprays every now and again.
I'm running R compounds all the time and I'll be switching out brakes pads in the future.
I worry a lot too, but then you knew that.
Here is my take on the matter.
I'm in the same boat as you.
Am I going to RACE it. No.
Can I track the snot out of it and keep it nice? Perhaps. It's an 8 year old car with 47000 miles on it.
I have the front of the car covered in 3M.
Realistically, I have my cake and eat it. I drive Grace to school and do the canyon runs. I get to drive this FINE car all the darn time.
When I want to go to the track, I pull out the kiddie seat, put in my harness bar, pull out my carpets, pop on my bypasses and off I go. Every time I come back amazed at the car's capabilities. It was built for this.
This weekend was my 8th and 9th track day ever. I'm starting to improve.
That being said, I budget for front end resprays every now and again.
I'm running R compounds all the time and I'll be switching out brakes pads in the future.
I worry a lot too, but then you knew that.
10-06-2004, 09:20 PM
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This is a great question and one that many of us have asked ourselves time and time again...
I got my answer when I was sitting in my 993 and it was filled with dirt after a classic HWFM moment. Fortunately the car was only slightly damaged. I shoulda' known this was going to happen when at a POC weekend a bunch of guys came up and said "that car sure is purty...sure ya' want it on the track?"
I did not buy a dedicated track car right away. I did research and decided on a SPEC944. I started with a stock car and am building it as I wanted to see if I can dedicate the time (between family and work) and how much I would enjoy it. I am able to dedicate enough time and I absolutely love it. I find it more fun driving my momentum car/turtle on the track 9 or 10/10ths, than driving my 993 7 or 8/10ths. I have had a few OTE's and it was no biggie in that car. I would have cried if I was in the 993.
Do some research, figure out your budget (both time and $$), what kind of level you want to do this at (DE, TT's, Club Racing, which club etc...). Also, when looking at the budget determine how much you can walk away from should you ball it up. Lastly, and most important...safety...you cannot spend too much on safety equipment. Hope to see you out there some day.
I got my answer when I was sitting in my 993 and it was filled with dirt after a classic HWFM moment. Fortunately the car was only slightly damaged. I shoulda' known this was going to happen when at a POC weekend a bunch of guys came up and said "that car sure is purty...sure ya' want it on the track?"
I did not buy a dedicated track car right away. I did research and decided on a SPEC944. I started with a stock car and am building it as I wanted to see if I can dedicate the time (between family and work) and how much I would enjoy it. I am able to dedicate enough time and I absolutely love it. I find it more fun driving my momentum car/turtle on the track 9 or 10/10ths, than driving my 993 7 or 8/10ths. I have had a few OTE's and it was no biggie in that car. I would have cried if I was in the 993.
Do some research, figure out your budget (both time and $$), what kind of level you want to do this at (DE, TT's, Club Racing, which club etc...). Also, when looking at the budget determine how much you can walk away from should you ball it up. Lastly, and most important...safety...you cannot spend too much on safety equipment. Hope to see you out there some day.
10-06-2004, 09:39 PM
#13
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Paul,
I got my son a 90' BMW 325is as they are not too expensive. Actually it was for the both of us. I bought it so we could take it to the track and not be to worried if something broke on it. The car already had suspension work done to it and these cars are pretty bulletproof. For me, it was the perfect car to track as it had fair power and handled well.
The car was a blast to drive, unfortunately he totaled it. End of story.
Scott
I got my son a 90' BMW 325is as they are not too expensive. Actually it was for the both of us. I bought it so we could take it to the track and not be to worried if something broke on it. The car already had suspension work done to it and these cars are pretty bulletproof. For me, it was the perfect car to track as it had fair power and handled well.
The car was a blast to drive, unfortunately he totaled it. End of story.
Scott
10-06-2004, 09:49 PM
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Paul, if you think you can save money getting a race car versus your TT you need to adjust your thinking. It will be way more expensive to keep running a race car versus tracking your TT.
10-07-2004, 12:27 AM
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OG, here is my two cents, take it with a grain of salt.
if you track less than 10 days a year, i would just track the TT. yes, there will be wear and tear, but my guess is you will not be pushing the car very hard but it's cheaper then buying a track car. but there's a danger of balling up the TT, you have to decide your comfort level.
if you track more than 10 days, i think it's better to get a cheaper track car to play around with. as you drive more, you will go faster and push harder. so the chance of mishap is bigger and of course the wear/tear and maintenance goes up exponentially. just as a data point, i used up 6 sets of RA1 (i also drive on road), 3 sets of rotors, more than 10 sets of pagid oranges. i really don't want to know the total cost of all those.
now, you also need to think if you want a track car or a race car. race car needs to be built to rules so you need to check on that as well. and kary is right, race car will be just as $$$ if not more so to maintain than your TT, although balling one up probably is easier to take emotionally.
track car, i defined it as a cosmetically beat up car with good mechanicals. you spend some money freshen it up and just drive the wheel of it. you don't have to obey any class rules. just make sure it's built safe and have fun with it.
finally, don't underestimate the cost of consumables, even fuel cost. i drive a hell lot more miles on track per day than anyone, i believe. most people log 150 track miles and get tired. i rarely log less than 200 miles per day, and often 300 miles. i need 3.5 full thanks of fuel. even though i run cheap 91 oct, at $3/gallon, it's more than 100 bucks per day just on fuel. now if you start adding tires, pads, rotors and such,...... i should stop now, i don't want to scare myself too much.
if you track less than 10 days a year, i would just track the TT. yes, there will be wear and tear, but my guess is you will not be pushing the car very hard but it's cheaper then buying a track car. but there's a danger of balling up the TT, you have to decide your comfort level.
if you track more than 10 days, i think it's better to get a cheaper track car to play around with. as you drive more, you will go faster and push harder. so the chance of mishap is bigger and of course the wear/tear and maintenance goes up exponentially. just as a data point, i used up 6 sets of RA1 (i also drive on road), 3 sets of rotors, more than 10 sets of pagid oranges. i really don't want to know the total cost of all those.
now, you also need to think if you want a track car or a race car. race car needs to be built to rules so you need to check on that as well. and kary is right, race car will be just as $$$ if not more so to maintain than your TT, although balling one up probably is easier to take emotionally.
track car, i defined it as a cosmetically beat up car with good mechanicals. you spend some money freshen it up and just drive the wheel of it. you don't have to obey any class rules. just make sure it's built safe and have fun with it.
finally, don't underestimate the cost of consumables, even fuel cost. i drive a hell lot more miles on track per day than anyone, i believe. most people log 150 track miles and get tired. i rarely log less than 200 miles per day, and often 300 miles. i need 3.5 full thanks of fuel. even though i run cheap 91 oct, at $3/gallon, it's more than 100 bucks per day just on fuel. now if you start adding tires, pads, rotors and such,...... i should stop now, i don't want to scare myself too much.