akolodesh

Since SuperD posted an interesting thread on upgrades, I was wondering who had experience with both the Clubsports and PSS9? How would you compare them in terms of performance, reliability, etc...?

Mark in Baltimore

Hi, Alex,

I had the PSS-9's and currently have the Motons. The Bilsteins are great for a street car that sees track duty while the Motons are made for serious DE/racing. I'm not sure if Moton wants you to drive it on the street, but my car rides acceptably well off of the track.

My PSS-9's were trouble-free after a year or so of road and track use, except for a spinning rear **** and blown shock. I only have twelve track days on the Motons which is not a fair comparison.

The Motons are much more tricky to set up. You have to choose the correct springs for your driving skill and car's aerodynamics, set the correct nitrogen pressures front and rear, and dial in the correct compression and rebound settings, along with sway bar settings and tire and camber choices. It can turn into a big mess in a hurry, especially if you're not good at keeping records of changes you've made, baseline comparisons to go by, etc.

In terms of performance, the Motons helped me drop four seconds off of my lap times at VIR. The four second loss could be due to 1) slightly newer MPSC tires; 2) bigger sway bars; 3) my own personal growth as a driver; 4) the Motons, so the comparison is hardly scientific but, for an average driver like me, the Motons helped the car feel better and that, in turn, gave me more confidence to push the car in corners where I might have felt some trepidation. I have no doubt that a talented pro driver could have taken my stock 993 with its floppy shockers and have driven twenty seconds faster than me.

Also, the Motons are short, meaning your ride height will be low, meaning bump steer will be an issue, meaning you'll have to get different uprights and adjustable tie rods to deal with the geometry changes, meaning you'll have to spend more money than you thought.

Installation of the Motons should be done by a competent shop who is used to race-prepping cars. Those reservoirs have to go somewhere and Moton is does not supply customers with the bracketry needed for brake lines, etc. Steve Weiner would be my first choice for purchasing the remotes, as he is an invaluable source of help in setting up the car.

akolodesh

ask and ye shall receive! Thanks for the informative advice. I feel I have, at minimum 6 to 8 multi-day DEs (read: 12 - 18 months) on my Bilstein/m030 combo before moving to the Motons (I have quite a bit to learn). My main concern was street driving with these on. I am quite comfortable with a stiffer than average p-car ride but understand that a passenger may not be.
Thanks again for the information. Oh, how slippery the slope can get.....

Mark in Baltimore

Kim,

The alligators count as off track, too.

Steve Weiner-Rennsport Systems

Hi Alex:

I'd simply reiterate what both Kim & Mark told you about the Motons. Great input and advice.

I'll just reinforce that people need to remember that Moton only makes the shocks: Its up to the vendor to select & provide the appropriate spring package, select shock settings and provide some of the critical hardware that facilitates the installation.

These variables really make ALL the difference in the final performance and success of the upgrade.

akolodesh

Thanks for the input Steve. By the way I got a chance to see the twin turbo upgrade package you sent to Yuri for the blue 996 in action. 650 hp - pretty amazing!!! Could you make the car any slower? We need you to have a "pimp my Porsche" show but with performance upgrades.

poorb0yw

That would be awesome. Saw on the Gunnar Racing site that a network is interested in starting a show based around thier shop. Would be amazing eyecandy for enthusiasts and fabricators alike.

Greg Fishman

Alex,
Another very nice set up is the Bilstein RSR shocks and springs. I sampled Joey's 964 with this package and I was very impressed. Maybe Steve W. can confirm that these are still available for the 993.

viperbob

I run Motons on my own car, and they are great. For a track shock, there is no comparison to a PSS9. It you want to change springs on your Motons, no big deal as they can handle it. PSS9s require IMMEDIATE revalving (if it can even be done depending upon the springs you are trying to run) to run stiffer springs. Also, single adjustable is not a real hot setup for track use. Personally, I love them and would not switch to anything else for the street or track.

On the downside, Motons have remote reservoirs that need to be located somewhere in the car with a hose. You are not supposed to mount the reservoirs in the rear in the engine compartment (although some people mistakenly do) as the heat from the engine will change the pressure over the course of a run and in turn change the handling charateristics. So now you need to run these into the passenger compartment if you are wanting to change the bump settings. As far as rebound, how good can you snake your arm back to the top of the shock in your car today? This is where you need to go for the rebound adjust. This reservoir is also filled with Nitrogen, and adjusting requires you to have some high pressure Nitrogen around. Do you like to have a bolt in product with all the proper fittings? These aren't Clubsports. There are no brakeline, or ABS mounts on the front struts. This requires some fabrication work to get everything to stay where it belongs. Motons are true race shocks, and will need rebuilding. They are not install and forget items.. Of course this will require removal, shipping them off, and then an installation and of course alignment and corner balance again. Quite costly in the long run. For some though (me included) it is well worth it.

So the question is, are you willing to live with the downside, and is the potential worth it for your type of driving.....

Mark in Baltimore

Bob,

I debated how to mount my rear reservoirs and have them mounted in the engine compartment just below the upper edge of the lid opening. I've run the car on some of the hottest days of the year and found them to be quite cool due to the great deal of air that is moving around them. Now, if I forget to open up my rear decklid, the engine heat can soak into the canisters and cause a potential change in the pressures.

I think it's ideal to mount the reservoirs in the cockpit of the car, but this approach involves making two holes slightly larger than the diameter of the canisters to allow them to pass through and may be unacceptable for someone who wants to reverse the mods.

kev

I have my rear remotes mounted on the subframe underneath the car near the tranny.

Greg Fishman

Mark,
You don't have to do that. You just either disconnect the lines or get some that have a "dry break" quick disconnectwhich will also add about $500/set.

I mount my rear reservoirs on the rear RSCS spoiler right where the intake air hits them.

Mark in Baltimore

I didn't know that, Greg. Thanks!

Steve Weiner-Rennsport Systems

Hi Alex:

LOL,....That 996 TT turned out very well, eh? Yuri told me the owner was pretty pleased with the results. Its a doozy.

A word about Moton fitment and durability,.......

1) The rear cannisters stay very very cool in a N/A engine compartment with the car at speed. We instrumented several engine compartments with thermocouples for several weeks under a variety of conditions to observe cannister temps. Only then did we made the decision to mount the cannisters as Mark did next to the rear tail hinges. They stay VERY cool except during heat soak with the engine lid down. (Mark did the smart thing by raising the tail between runs). Once back underway, the thermocouples showed they cooled right back down to ambient temperatures or less. Thats why they are made from aluminum,...

As Greg said, they are available with quick disconnects on the lines for cabin mounting, but those are very very spendy. Its one of the differences between the Clubsport & Motorsport shocks.

2) Durability. With proper care, these last a long long time. Having used JRZ/Moton/Penske shocks for 8 years now, I've got a pretty clear picture about what goes wrong and how long all these components last under street and racing conditions as we are a Service Center for Motons. Shock boots are sometimes used in street applications when wet or dirty street conditions are expected and that extends shaft seal life to the same as Bilsteins.

We have over 20 street & race cars with Motons since 1998 that have never been rebuilt and they all hold pressure with no leaks; its a record that JRZ or Penske would be envious of,...

Bob is right about the rebuilding part,........your car will need realignment after that is done, however its a small price to pay for the gains in handling & control that these things provide.

Just another tradeoff decision that everyone must make for themselves.

Hope this helps clarify things a bit.

Fongster

First off,

these are Moton Clubsports and are NOT for a Porsche




The Clean side


I had them for about 4000miles before I noticed the leak. They were repaired under warranty and I love them.
It is on a 95 BMW M3 which is driven to the track and back only. I have no road miles on it other than that.

Quick disconnects for the reserviors

Closeup pic of the disconnects