"New and Improved" Harness Mounting (Lots of Pics)
04-01-2003, 08:23 PM
#1
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"New and Improved" Harness Mounting (Lots of Pics)
I had just typed in the mother of all explanations for the following pics, when the message board freaked on me and I lost the whole post. So, forgive me but I'm just posting the pics of my new (and hopefully final) 6-point harness mounting.
Shoulder belts now mounted wrap-around style to DAS bar. Had to dremel / file off the poorly placed, welded-in, outboard harness mounting guide to avoid kinking the outboard belt. Would advise skipping this option if considering a DAS bar. Please note that the seat is moved all the way forward for these pics, so the shoulder belts look artificially long.
<img src="http://boards.rennlist.com/upload/ShoulderBelts1web1.jpg" alt=" - " />
Passenger seat moved all the way back, showing how short the belts are.
<img src="http://boards.rennlist.com/upload/ShoulderBelts2web1.jpg" alt=" - " />
Both lap belts and anti-sub belts now mounted properly behind the driver. Advice from NHRA rulebook (see Simpson website) advised placing anti-sub belt mounting point behind chest line of driver, and lap belts at 45 degree angle to the floor. Mission accomplished.
<img src="http://boards.rennlist.com/upload/SubBeltFloorMount1web1.jpg" alt=" - " />
SCCA-approved 4"x4" backing plates used under car (with large washers within car) to secure anti-sub belt mounts. Grade 8 hardware used throughout.
<img src="http://boards.rennlist.com/upload/SubBeltBackingPlatesweb1.jpg" alt=" - " />
The yellow gunk is Wurth Protective Wax - used for some degree of rustproofing instead of underbody sealer. Used a Unibit to make the 7/16" drill holes.
This set-up complies with both PCA and SCCA Club Racing guidelines, which I thought were important even if I'm only using the car for DE's.
Hope this helps.
<img border="0" alt="[cheers]" title="" src="graemlins/beerchug.gif" />
Shoulder belts now mounted wrap-around style to DAS bar. Had to dremel / file off the poorly placed, welded-in, outboard harness mounting guide to avoid kinking the outboard belt. Would advise skipping this option if considering a DAS bar. Please note that the seat is moved all the way forward for these pics, so the shoulder belts look artificially long.
<img src="http://boards.rennlist.com/upload/ShoulderBelts1web1.jpg" alt=" - " />
Passenger seat moved all the way back, showing how short the belts are.
<img src="http://boards.rennlist.com/upload/ShoulderBelts2web1.jpg" alt=" - " />
Both lap belts and anti-sub belts now mounted properly behind the driver. Advice from NHRA rulebook (see Simpson website) advised placing anti-sub belt mounting point behind chest line of driver, and lap belts at 45 degree angle to the floor. Mission accomplished.
<img src="http://boards.rennlist.com/upload/SubBeltFloorMount1web1.jpg" alt=" - " />
SCCA-approved 4"x4" backing plates used under car (with large washers within car) to secure anti-sub belt mounts. Grade 8 hardware used throughout.
<img src="http://boards.rennlist.com/upload/SubBeltBackingPlatesweb1.jpg" alt=" - " />
The yellow gunk is Wurth Protective Wax - used for some degree of rustproofing instead of underbody sealer. Used a Unibit to make the 7/16" drill holes.
This set-up complies with both PCA and SCCA Club Racing guidelines, which I thought were important even if I'm only using the car for DE's.
Hope this helps.
<img border="0" alt="[cheers]" title="" src="graemlins/beerchug.gif" />
04-01-2003, 08:39 PM
#2
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Where did you get all the hardware (eyebolts etc)? Did you use the same backing plates for the lab belt mount on the transmission tunnel? Did you use the seatbelt mount for the outboard lapbelt?
04-01-2003, 08:43 PM
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Anir:
We just finished putting in a 5-point in my car. I had issues with the anit-sub belt location. Being too far forward (Guidelines were 20 degrees forward or backward from sub-hole). We ended up drilling straight down by cutting a hole through the sheeting that holds the car's brains and drilled through the floorboard.
Are the specs for a 6-point different (ie, more than 20 degrees back is OK)? Also, does PCA or SCCA address this 20 degree variance at any length?
TIA.
We just finished putting in a 5-point in my car. I had issues with the anit-sub belt location. Being too far forward (Guidelines were 20 degrees forward or backward from sub-hole). We ended up drilling straight down by cutting a hole through the sheeting that holds the car's brains and drilled through the floorboard.
Are the specs for a 6-point different (ie, more than 20 degrees back is OK)? Also, does PCA or SCCA address this 20 degree variance at any length?
TIA.
04-01-2003, 09:23 PM
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</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">Originally posted by Silver1.8T:
<strong>Where did you get all the hardware (eyebolts etc)? Did you use the same backing plates for the lab belt mount on the transmission tunnel? Did you use the seatbelt mount for the outboard lapbelt?</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">Silver1.8T,
I purchased all the mounting hardware, including 7/16" eyebolts and washers/nuts/plates from Racer's Wholesale.
The 4"x4" plates would not fit in my driveshaft tunnel - partially because my car is AWD so it's pretty crowded in there. Therefore, I used the same large gold washers that you see in the rear seat floorboard. It feels very secure, because the sheetmetal used along the driveshaft tunnel is thicker than that used in the floorboards.
Yes, I did use the existing 7/16" seatbelt mount for the outboard lap belt. I could not find a way to access the bolt to get a washer on it, but I figure that it's good enough for the original 3-point restraint, so...
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">Originally posted by Mark in Hermosa:
<strong>Are the specs for a 6-point different (ie, more than 20 degrees back is OK)? Also, does PCA or SCCA address this 20 degree variance at any length?TIA.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">Mark,
I also came across this 20 degree issue in a couple of places, but not on the PCA or SCCA Club Racing safety sites. Also, the NHRA rulebook and Simpson website suggest mounting the anti-sub belts "behind the chest line". This necessitated deviation from this 20 degree suggestion. If it's good enough for drag racers,...
The anti-sub belts feel much more secure behind the seat than when previously mounted in front of the seat.
<strong>Where did you get all the hardware (eyebolts etc)? Did you use the same backing plates for the lab belt mount on the transmission tunnel? Did you use the seatbelt mount for the outboard lapbelt?</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">Silver1.8T,
I purchased all the mounting hardware, including 7/16" eyebolts and washers/nuts/plates from Racer's Wholesale.
The 4"x4" plates would not fit in my driveshaft tunnel - partially because my car is AWD so it's pretty crowded in there. Therefore, I used the same large gold washers that you see in the rear seat floorboard. It feels very secure, because the sheetmetal used along the driveshaft tunnel is thicker than that used in the floorboards.
Yes, I did use the existing 7/16" seatbelt mount for the outboard lap belt. I could not find a way to access the bolt to get a washer on it, but I figure that it's good enough for the original 3-point restraint, so...
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">Originally posted by Mark in Hermosa:
<strong>Are the specs for a 6-point different (ie, more than 20 degrees back is OK)? Also, does PCA or SCCA address this 20 degree variance at any length?TIA.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">Mark,
I also came across this 20 degree issue in a couple of places, but not on the PCA or SCCA Club Racing safety sites. Also, the NHRA rulebook and Simpson website suggest mounting the anti-sub belts "behind the chest line". This necessitated deviation from this 20 degree suggestion. If it's good enough for drag racers,...
The anti-sub belts feel much more secure behind the seat than when previously mounted in front of the seat.
04-01-2003, 10:50 PM
#5
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Anir,
A bit OT here but what type of paint finish did you select for your DAS bar? In your pics, sometimes it looks like semigloss, other times satin. Either way, it looks classy.
I'm hoping to get my bar ready for Mid-Ohio but I don't know if it's going to happen.
Good luck getting all of your goodies on!
A bit OT here but what type of paint finish did you select for your DAS bar? In your pics, sometimes it looks like semigloss, other times satin. Either way, it looks classy.
I'm hoping to get my bar ready for Mid-Ohio but I don't know if it's going to happen.
Good luck getting all of your goodies on!
04-01-2003, 10:55 PM
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Hi Mark,
It was powder coated by a local shop in "satin black" for $75. I originally considered getting it covered in chestnut brown leather by Alan Gun for $250, but my wife convinced me that the black would look fine (i.e. talked me out of spending additional $$).
Mid Ohio will be great. I hope you'll come visit me at the beach. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="wink.gif" />
It was powder coated by a local shop in "satin black" for $75. I originally considered getting it covered in chestnut brown leather by Alan Gun for $250, but my wife convinced me that the black would look fine (i.e. talked me out of spending additional $$).
Mid Ohio will be great. I hope you'll come visit me at the beach. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="wink.gif" />
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04-02-2003, 01:06 AM
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Mark,
The Teamtech harnesses have nice pads at the groin and sternum which distribute the load over a wider surface area.
<img src="http://boards.rennlist.com/upload/TeamtechHarnessw.jpg" alt=" - " />
The Teamtech harnesses have nice pads at the groin and sternum which distribute the load over a wider surface area.
<img src="http://boards.rennlist.com/upload/TeamtechHarnessw.jpg" alt=" - " />
04-02-2003, 01:51 AM
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Looks great Anir. Those teamtech harnesses are beautiful.
Do the rules specifically require 4x4 mounting plates? Just wondering because I got mounting hardware from Sparco and the plates are more like 4x2.
Do the rules specifically require 4x4 mounting plates? Just wondering because I got mounting hardware from Sparco and the plates are more like 4x2.
04-02-2003, 01:57 AM
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Anir,
Great post, super pics. I too have my sub belt located in a similar position.
And very good to keep the belts as short as possible. I was told by a race car fabricator, a believer in short belts, that belts can stretch up to 30% on a severe impact, God forbid that should happen to anyone, anywhere, anytime.
But if it were to happen, and someone had mounted shoulder belts to the bottom cross bar on the DAS-sport bar (As I did once upon a time), there would be so much more belt to feel the 30% stretch, and the belts could lose their effectiveness
You did a great job on installation, and for those that are reluctant to drill some holes in your 993 tub, not to worry, it doesn't feel so bad after the first hole. <img border="0" alt="[thumbsup]" title="" src="graemlins/bigok.gif" />
Great post, super pics. I too have my sub belt located in a similar position.
And very good to keep the belts as short as possible. I was told by a race car fabricator, a believer in short belts, that belts can stretch up to 30% on a severe impact, God forbid that should happen to anyone, anywhere, anytime.
But if it were to happen, and someone had mounted shoulder belts to the bottom cross bar on the DAS-sport bar (As I did once upon a time), there would be so much more belt to feel the 30% stretch, and the belts could lose their effectiveness
You did a great job on installation, and for those that are reluctant to drill some holes in your 993 tub, not to worry, it doesn't feel so bad after the first hole. <img border="0" alt="[thumbsup]" title="" src="graemlins/bigok.gif" />
04-02-2003, 02:03 AM
#11
Rules.
Strange things.
I would have thought the fire-ex must be "convenient to the hand of the driver when fully belted in" such as the transmission tunnel on the passenger side.
Anyway, nice watch! Paiget?
And is that a flourescent hoola hoop?
Cheers,
Strange things.
I would have thought the fire-ex must be "convenient to the hand of the driver when fully belted in" such as the transmission tunnel on the passenger side.
Anyway, nice watch! Paiget?
And is that a flourescent hoola hoop?
Cheers,
04-02-2003, 08:04 AM
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</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">Originally posted by Anir:
<strong>Mid Ohio will be great. I hope you'll come visit me at the beach. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="wink.gif" /> </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">Thanks for your info, Anir. Your set-up looks fantastic, especially those gorgeous seats. <img border="0" alt="[thumbsup]" title="" src="graemlins/bigok.gif" />
I'll bring the chairs and umbrella.
<strong>Mid Ohio will be great. I hope you'll come visit me at the beach. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="wink.gif" /> </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">Thanks for your info, Anir. Your set-up looks fantastic, especially those gorgeous seats. <img border="0" alt="[thumbsup]" title="" src="graemlins/bigok.gif" />
I'll bring the chairs and umbrella.
04-02-2003, 08:26 AM
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Princeton,
The SCCA rules require a 4"x4" backing plate when using sheetmetal to secure a mount. I'm not sure about the PCA.
Martin,
Thanks. You're right about the pucker factor when drilling the first hole. Like making your first bad grade in college, it's not so bad the second time around. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="wink.gif" />
Carrera GT,
The location of the fire extinguisher is marginal, since I can't honestly get to it if fully cinched into my harnesses. However, I did not want to drill into the center console or driver's side outboard door sill - the only two areas where it would be truly accessible when strapped in.
I'm a sucker for mechanical watches - it's a Maurice Lacroix.
Mark,
I'm looking forward to meeting you.
Have a great day.
The SCCA rules require a 4"x4" backing plate when using sheetmetal to secure a mount. I'm not sure about the PCA.
Martin,
Thanks. You're right about the pucker factor when drilling the first hole. Like making your first bad grade in college, it's not so bad the second time around. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="wink.gif" />
Carrera GT,
The location of the fire extinguisher is marginal, since I can't honestly get to it if fully cinched into my harnesses. However, I did not want to drill into the center console or driver's side outboard door sill - the only two areas where it would be truly accessible when strapped in.
I'm a sucker for mechanical watches - it's a Maurice Lacroix.
Mark,
I'm looking forward to meeting you.
Have a great day.
04-02-2003, 08:46 AM
#14
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</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">Originally posted by Anir:
<strong>...even if I'm only using the car for DE's...</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">Yeah right...
Looks really nice Anir, defenately a proper job!
Only thing I'll have troubloe is drilling those holes for anti-sub.
Did you try to find a way to mount them i.e. seat rear mounts? Or would that be illegal?
Thanks!
<strong>...even if I'm only using the car for DE's...</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">Yeah right...
Looks really nice Anir, defenately a proper job!
Only thing I'll have troubloe is drilling those holes for anti-sub.
Did you try to find a way to mount them i.e. seat rear mounts? Or would that be illegal?
Thanks!