viperbob

Except for super hot weather, it was a nice weekend for a DE. One time during the event I was following a much slower car for a few turns waiting for a passing signal. So we get to a left hand turn that has a short straight and then another left hander. I set up to come to the inside after the turn and the other car stays to the very outside / right side of the track. Perfect I am offline on the inside / left side of the track and set to pass. Then comes the passing signal. Arm comes out the window and arm goes over the roof. They want me to pass on the right side, and the car is already at the edge of the track on the right side. I know that TTs have 4wd, but that is a little ridiculous. The car then proceeds to SLOW dramatically and then pull directly in front of me approaching the next left hand turn. Sometimes you have to wonder what people are thinking.... This was also an advanced run group with experienced drivers.

If I would have had a 959 Dakkar rally car, I would have taken the passing signal off the outside of the track...

fbfisher

Not knowing what the DE culture is like, were you tempted to find him after the session and ask him? This kind of behavior could lead to a very dangerous and expensive mishap.

You were smart to stay back, an ounce of prevention...

viperbob

I usually just let these things go unless they are TRULY dangerous. It is all about communication on the track with DEs. This person wanted me to do something that was not possible at that time (clearly) You just have to wait and make sure you understand what the person in front is trying to tell you to do. Then if safe, follow it and everyone is happy. If I sense any inexperience in other drivers, I tend to keep my distance until a time where it is very safe to pass with lots of room. With DEs you get a large mix of car types and experience levels on the track at the same time. You just need to have a little patience (did I say that?) and you can have a great time testing the legs on your Porsche....

OldGuy

Bob I had that happen to me on Sat coming home from willow on hwy 14

kary993

Bob, that is definitely something I have seen as well. Adding to the confusion, when we ran the tribute to Le Mans at the California Speedway with POC and PCA the passing rules were different between POC and PCA. There were some that were registered in both POC and PCA time trail thus had to remember which group they were driving with at the time to ensure proper pointing. Of course you can guess after a driver is on their 7th, and 8th 30 minute session for the day they begin to get tired. There were many incorrect point by's resulting in the same sort of confusion that you described.

I agree with you, take it in stride and if it is not dangerous behavior (explainable) then move on.

SundayDriver

If you guys really care about getting good passing signals, you need to educate the other/newer drivers in the fast groups. Making the decision to not say anything is a decision to help ensure poor quality signals in DEs. It is up to both instructors AND participants to raise the quality.

RedlineMan

Quite true, Mark;

Of course it is also incumbent upon you to approach folks in a non-combative, generous manner. I agree that it is part of your duty as a senior member of a run group to help out the Chief Instructor and point out these potentially dangerous faux pas to the unaware. It is indeed part of their education. I've done it many times over the years, and found most people apologetic and eager to learn.

At the same time, you must make sure YOU did nothing to "facilitate" their transgression... like disappear from their mirrors, or something.

Y'all might be interested in this thread on the Racing/DE board.

https://rennlist.com/forums/showthre...hreadid=142587

Agro1

Taken from the Racing/DE Forum
John - While I agree w/you that less experienced drivers need to be more focused and aware when running in an advanced group, I disagree with the statement above. If DEs are getting crowded, that is no reason to move someone out of the beginner or indermediate run group into the advanced/instructor run group. That is a recipe for disaster. If space is a concern, then the number of participants needs to be cut back, extra DE days added or more run groups. Throwing a novice in with the fast guys and expecting him/her to be "up to speed" is asking for trouble and in the end, bad judgement by the track registrar/event organizer. Just my .02

Edward

Whenever I see anything such as this (which I do think can be potentially dangerous), I always let one of the folks running the event know, in a kind and constructive manner, of course. This way, they can reiterate track procedures/safety at a the next driver's meeting or such. I've seen a "point-by" to the right before in the novice group, but never in the advanced group

Edward

Robert Henriksen

Yup, I've certainly taken it upon myself to let others know when they've committed a faux pas. I've yet to get a bad attitude in response - it's always been received well. I must be doing okay in approaching people in a non-confrontational manner.

FlyYellow

bob - sorry you had a bad experience yet. i had two interesting situations at laguna 2 weekends ago.

1) a 996 got tail happy infront of my in turn2. they recovered and gave me a passing point in the middle of turn (well before the apex of turn 2 -for those that know laguna). my initial thought was: car is under control again, no wheels left the track, i'll give them some room and i gave them the "X" with my arms indicating that i wasn't going to take the pass. so what happens.... i get another point and another - at this point the car is going 10mph and i'm downshifting into 1st matching the speed. I finally took the pass thinking i don't want to be a sitting duck in 2 waiting for a 80+mph car to rearrange the rear of my car. i felt very uncomfortable about this pass.

2. This is my favorite point by story: one of the novice drivers decided he was too scared to let go of the steering wheel with his left hand and stick it out the window. So he does a point with his right hand. there were two of us taking the pass and did so safely and quickly. then after he tells me that he didn't point me by just the other car. his instructor said he was having a hard time and that he wasn't comfortable letting go of the wheel to do a point-by... after this experience i suggest a new rule. To be clear, you should only use your left hand to point. sigh...

cheers,
boris

Eyal 951

I had a simular situation...
When I was at buttonwillow, in the yellow group lapping everyone (I was moved to the blue group quickly) this guy in a new mini was in front of me, really holding me back. I got close, but safe (and I am safe with following distances) to let him know its time to get the hell out of the way since I don't apreciate driving a race track at speeds even HWFM members would get annoyed at... so he finally realized I was back there, freaked and points me right before a turn. 1) this is yellow group, no passing in, or in front of or right after turns. 2) my first day ever on a track, I'm not passing in front of a turn to enter off line. he see's I'm not passing, slows down (he still had room before braking for the turn) keeps slowing and moving right. slowing and moving right, slowing and moving right. I'm riding his tail, not passing, and subsequenlty having to slow down to... he moved over so far right, he ran out of track and put two wheels off, in a straight! as soon as he did that, he swerved back onto the track... needless to say, when i did pass him, i gave LOTS of room!
~Eyal

mds

Bob, you are listed in the White run group on the event's runlist assignment page. White is not advanced and at this event White contained several relatively new drivers. Maybe you switched groups?

hdemas

I'm sorry to hear you didn't have a great time Bob. I wish I could have been there this weekend, but regretfully had something come up that precluded my attendance. That was a lot of great track time that I missed out on! Hopefully they will manage to get another event later this year.

For what it's worth, I would encourage you to keep coming to the GGR events as I've never had anything less than a really positive experience. What's one little mix-up over one timed run, especially with all that track time. It is really a small matter when you consider that they did get a time on your second lap, which in my experience is almost always faster unless you screw up as the tires are better for that second lap. How many other groups are even organized enough to do the timed runs? Most events are just DE's. I would hate to see these minor things keep you from attending future GGR events.

viperbob

Mike - I was running with Green at the event. Since it was my first time, they had just put me in white which I changed before the first session.

Harry - Sorry you could not make it. The thing that bummed me out was that the first lap was reasonable given that my tires were not 100% up to temp, and on the second lap my fender liner on the passenger side was sucked out of place and was hitting the tire so I was getting a "thump, thump" fairly loud so I back off a little for the rest of the lap.