seats
Thread Starter
Instructor
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 128
Likes: 0
seats
Like many of you, I wanted to put harnesses in my car for primarily DE events. I got a harness guide bar and the harnesses, and figured I would use them with my stock seats. Turns out, my Porsche Club Region will not allow the use of stock seats with this type of restraint system (the harnesses can fall off you shoulders). So what should I do? I really like my stock seats both in comfort and feel. I didn't want to have to buy race seats (Recaro SRD etc..). What have others done? There has got to be another option then getting another club to run with, buying sport seats or race seats, or scratching the idea and buying a race car 
.
TIA.
. TIA.
Thread Starter
Instructor
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 128
Likes: 0
K-
I guess once the brackets are set up, its fairly easy to switch out the seats? Between switching wheels/tires, brake pads, all the harness stuff and now seats, I'm going to need a few months to get ready for events .
thanks
I guess once the brackets are set up, its fairly easy to switch out the seats? Between switching wheels/tires, brake pads, all the harness stuff and now seats, I'm going to need a few months to get ready for events
. thanks
Thread Starter
Instructor
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 128
Likes: 0
Your not the only one, I like prepping the car too, I just find my self doing things always at the 11th hour, and then if there is a problem- oh &%)*@*. I have tried the SRD's which are nice, there are so many seats out there. My suggesstion would be try different ones, until you find a seat you like.
Three Wheelin'
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 1,672
Likes: 52
From: Chicago
C4S,
Can you not run straps with stock seats if you use the H harness? This harness "add on" keeps the shoulder belts together. I believe our region of PCA has this rule in place for the faster run groups. It may be worth checking out these rules. I have the Recaro SRD's, took out the driver seat this weekend, took about 15min. see Robins web site for directions <a href="http://www.p-car.com" target="_blank">www.p-car.com</a>
Can you not run straps with stock seats if you use the H harness? This harness "add on" keeps the shoulder belts together. I believe our region of PCA has this rule in place for the faster run groups. It may be worth checking out these rules. I have the Recaro SRD's, took out the driver seat this weekend, took about 15min. see Robins web site for directions <a href="http://www.p-car.com" target="_blank">www.p-car.com</a>
Instructor
Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 204
Likes: 0
From: LI, NY
Eric,
I've been through this and ended up ordering two GT3 seats for my 996TT. However, the main reason for getting these seats is the street use. The standard or sport seats work just fine with 4 or 5/6 point race harness and harness bar.
A simple fix for the shoulder belts rolling off you shoulders: cross the shoulder belts behind the seat. This really solves the problem!
In my car, the shoulder belts are attached at the rear seatbelt mounting points: left belt is attached to the right bolt and vise versa. The belts cross, go over the harness guide bar and on top of the seatback. Even if I try to roll them off, I cannot!
Again, if your group requires racing seats there is not much you can do. But maybe you can convince them that the crossed belts are not likely to roll off.
I've been through this and ended up ordering two GT3 seats for my 996TT. However, the main reason for getting these seats is the street use. The standard or sport seats work just fine with 4 or 5/6 point race harness and harness bar.
A simple fix for the shoulder belts rolling off you shoulders: cross the shoulder belts behind the seat. This really solves the problem!
In my car, the shoulder belts are attached at the rear seatbelt mounting points: left belt is attached to the right bolt and vise versa. The belts cross, go over the harness guide bar and on top of the seatback. Even if I try to roll them off, I cannot!
Again, if your group requires racing seats there is not much you can do. But maybe you can convince them that the crossed belts are not likely to roll off.
Thread Starter
Instructor
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 128
Likes: 0
VS-
That's a good idea, I should check with an instructor. Below you will find an excerpt from our rule book. Rule #15 states the word "only", so I'm not sure if its OK. Where did you buy your GT 3 seats?
Our DE rule book states:
14. Students in an instructor's car or instructors in a student's car must have available and wear, the same restraint system as is being worn by the driver. Seats are considered part of the restraint system.
15. Harnesses (optional) must include a sub strap and be mounted in an approved manner consistent with SCCA requirements and manufacturer's instructions. Harnesses may only be used with seats designed to accommodate them. Shoulder straps should be mounted at 90 degrees to the axis of your spine or at most 40 degrees down from the horizontal.
Thanks
That's a good idea, I should check with an instructor. Below you will find an excerpt from our rule book. Rule #15 states the word "only", so I'm not sure if its OK. Where did you buy your GT 3 seats?
Our DE rule book states:
14. Students in an instructor's car or instructors in a student's car must have available and wear, the same restraint system as is being worn by the driver. Seats are considered part of the restraint system.
15. Harnesses (optional) must include a sub strap and be mounted in an approved manner consistent with SCCA requirements and manufacturer's instructions. Harnesses may only be used with seats designed to accommodate them. Shoulder straps should be mounted at 90 degrees to the axis of your spine or at most 40 degrees down from the horizontal.
Thanks
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Joe Kucinski
Instructor
Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 204
Likes: 0
From: LI, NY
Eric,
the seats are coming from Gert at <a href="http://www.carnewal.com" target="_blank">www.carnewal.com</a> which is my favourite place in general
Any color but black takes about 8 weeks; you can get black ones much faster. Price is around 3K for the pair. I have seen them advertised at several other places including Shatz, ByDesign and Weissach but the prices were in the 4K range. However, should you need the seats ASAP, they may have them in stock.
Cheers.
the seats are coming from Gert at <a href="http://www.carnewal.com" target="_blank">www.carnewal.com</a> which is my favourite place in general
Any color but black takes about 8 weeks; you can get black ones much faster. Price is around 3K for the pair. I have seen them advertised at several other places including Shatz, ByDesign and Weissach but the prices were in the 4K range. However, should you need the seats ASAP, they may have them in stock.
Cheers.
Burning Brakes
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 1,199
Likes: 1
From: www.cupcar.net
If you cannot mount the competition harness according to the exact manufacturuers guidelines then you are much better off using the stock 3 point belts.
You cannot ignore manufacturer warnings like this:
"WARNING: Sub belt must pass through slot in seat bottom and must not be off from vertical by more than 20 degrees. Never pass sub belt over the front of the seat padding. Failure to mount the sub belt in the proper manner may result in severe injury or death"
etc, etc.
It is unlikely that any rationalizing can make these warnings go away.
You cannot ignore manufacturer warnings like this:
"WARNING: Sub belt must pass through slot in seat bottom and must not be off from vertical by more than 20 degrees. Never pass sub belt over the front of the seat padding. Failure to mount the sub belt in the proper manner may result in severe injury or death"
etc, etc.
It is unlikely that any rationalizing can make these warnings go away.
Burning Brakes
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 1,199
Likes: 1
From: www.cupcar.net
My impression of 6 point harness systems is that these harnesses are really designed for Formula type cars where the seat is the floor and the driver's position is not satisfactory for a sub belt mount. However I may be wrong because later I have seen some professional installations in sedans and sportscars. My suggestion would be to talk to the manufacturer of the harness (not a salesman) and find out what they recommend.
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Joined: May 2001
Posts: 7,254
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From: Austin TX
I read an article a guy had written about this topic and it basically stated that you should do one of two things in regards to prepping (safety wise) your car.
1. leave car in its stock form or
2. Use Scca guidlines when building your car.
Reason being is that the manufactor of your car has done extensive crash testing and knows what is best for that particular car.
The SCCA guidelines (PCA Club Racing also follows these for the most part)was suggested since there are 1000's of track car running within these rules and changes are made based on empirical evidence. This organization sees how cars perform in real accidents vs. staged or hypothetical incidents.
IMO just adding a harness bar and harnesses is a half baked approach and (even though I did this too) you could end up with a car that is less safe than it was when it left the factory.
If you are going to do anything at all, at a minimum get a roll bar, seats with proper guides and harnesses.
Greg
1. leave car in its stock form or
2. Use Scca guidlines when building your car.
Reason being is that the manufactor of your car has done extensive crash testing and knows what is best for that particular car.
The SCCA guidelines (PCA Club Racing also follows these for the most part)was suggested since there are 1000's of track car running within these rules and changes are made based on empirical evidence. This organization sees how cars perform in real accidents vs. staged or hypothetical incidents.
IMO just adding a harness bar and harnesses is a half baked approach and (even though I did this too) you could end up with a car that is less safe than it was when it left the factory.
If you are going to do anything at all, at a minimum get a roll bar, seats with proper guides and harnesses.
Greg