Is the 3.8L RS conversion worth it?
06-03-2002, 05:33 PM
#1
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Is the 3.8L RS conversion worth it?
On carnewal the kit was something like 10k and said only a 15hp increase? I know this questions has been asked before, but I searched and really did not find any direct answers. Does this kit changethe torque curve or make more power than quoted? Or is it just really overpriced for what you get?
06-03-2002, 06:10 PM
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If you want more power, I think upgrading to a TT is the best way to go. You can easily dump 20-30K into a N/A 993 to get over 300HP and still find you are not satisfied. Right now is a great time to buy a 993TT as the economy combined with the release of the 996TT has really brought prices down.
06-03-2002, 06:50 PM
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Hank Cohen had an excellent write-up about his experience with installing a 3.8L kit. Basically, he couldn't tell the difference 
Perhaps he's had more time to analyze his upgrade, but from what I understand, he was not impressed whatsoever...
Perhaps he's had more time to analyze his upgrade, but from what I understand, he was not impressed whatsoever...
06-03-2002, 07:32 PM
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Oleg et al:
I think from a bragging rights point of view, the 3.8L kit is awesome. Also, if you like normally aspirated motors better than turbocharged motors, then the kit makes sense. A lot of you have alluded to the problem of getting your money out of the car when it comes time to sell it and, you can’t. I know I know we are all going to keep our 993s forever. I am on my 3rd 993 and my first GT3-Cup, which is currently for sale, and have said the same thing about each of them just as you have.
You can do a lot of things to the motor to get more than just 300 HP out of it. You can do most of the same things to your 3.6 to get very similar HP out of it. Change the cams, get some head work done, work with the intake system and modify the exhaust to match the other modifications. All of this has to be done on a dyno with someone who knows what they are doing and that is one of the kinks that make the 3.8L kit so attractive. Porsche has already done this for us.
If the kit price is $10,000 and another $3,000-$4,000 for the install, I would be tempted to look at other options like a supercharger. If you’re a purist, then your options are limited. Personally, I like the normally aspirated narrow body cars and the RS especially. So much so, in fact, that I am on my second RS conversion. I hope to be buying another 3.8L kit before the end of the year and having my transmission regeared to more closely match my driving style.
As to the original question, you can feel a little more torque from the 3.8L motor especially on a racetrack when climbing hills or accelerating out of very slow corners. The HP and Torque curves are similar enough to the 3.6L Varioram motor as to not feel very different in normal driving or even on the track in faster turns and straights. It is just not that big of a difference.
Hank
I think from a bragging rights point of view, the 3.8L kit is awesome. Also, if you like normally aspirated motors better than turbocharged motors, then the kit makes sense. A lot of you have alluded to the problem of getting your money out of the car when it comes time to sell it and, you can’t. I know I know we are all going to keep our 993s forever. I am on my 3rd 993 and my first GT3-Cup, which is currently for sale, and have said the same thing about each of them just as you have.
You can do a lot of things to the motor to get more than just 300 HP out of it. You can do most of the same things to your 3.6 to get very similar HP out of it. Change the cams, get some head work done, work with the intake system and modify the exhaust to match the other modifications. All of this has to be done on a dyno with someone who knows what they are doing and that is one of the kinks that make the 3.8L kit so attractive. Porsche has already done this for us.
If the kit price is $10,000 and another $3,000-$4,000 for the install, I would be tempted to look at other options like a supercharger. If you’re a purist, then your options are limited. Personally, I like the normally aspirated narrow body cars and the RS especially. So much so, in fact, that I am on my second RS conversion. I hope to be buying another 3.8L kit before the end of the year and having my transmission regeared to more closely match my driving style.
As to the original question, you can feel a little more torque from the 3.8L motor especially on a racetrack when climbing hills or accelerating out of very slow corners. The HP and Torque curves are similar enough to the 3.6L Varioram motor as to not feel very different in normal driving or even on the track in faster turns and straights. It is just not that big of a difference.
Hank
06-03-2002, 08:07 PM
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it is worth it if you don't want to get run over by the other guys in your racing class that have done this, right Bill? Friend of mine ran with Bill and the difference 30-40hp makes is very pronounced on the track. Know he is looking for a way to beg, borrow or steal the $$ for this upgrade. For a street car it is hard to justify. I would think the $15K would be better spent on having Ruf do their turbo charged conversion and get over 400hp.
06-03-2002, 08:39 PM
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[quote]Originally posted by ZCAT3:
<strong>If you want more power, I think upgrading to a TT is the best way to go. You can easily dump 20-30K into a N/A 993 to get over 300HP and still find you are not satisfied.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Nope, the open air experience defines what a real sportscar should be <img src="graemlins/beerchug.gif" border="0" alt="[cheers]" />
I will go the mod route myself. It does look like the supercharger gives the best bang for the pound
A light duty supercharger should get around 50 hp for under $10k 
<strong>If you want more power, I think upgrading to a TT is the best way to go. You can easily dump 20-30K into a N/A 993 to get over 300HP and still find you are not satisfied.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Nope, the open air experience defines what a real sportscar should be <img src="graemlins/beerchug.gif" border="0" alt="[cheers]" />
I will go the mod route myself. It does look like the supercharger gives the best bang for the pound
A light duty supercharger should get around 50 hp for under $10k
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06-03-2002, 08:56 PM
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Shark - what do you mean by "open air experience" - a cab? I sold our Cab to buy the TT. It all depends on what you are looking for. The post here was about more power in a 993. If you have never driven a 993TT I suggest you give it a try if the opportunity ever arises. It is truly a seamless integration of power into the 993 platform. The TT is everything the 993 is, only faster.
06-03-2002, 08:59 PM
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Hi Kim - we are still pondering the TracQuest event - the 2 days is hard for Michele to fit in with work. If we are there, you can take the TT for a drive. Otherwise, I am sure we will meet up elsewhere.
06-03-2002, 09:11 PM
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Kim - we are getting a bit OT here - but... the 1 day event appears to focus more on the orientation stuff with the bulk of the track time on the second day. We have a chance to do a full day at Willow Springs in July for $450, so that is what we are balancing it against.
By the way - it took one turn at the wheel of a TT to get me hooked (same for Michele).
By the way - it took one turn at the wheel of a TT to get me hooked (same for Michele).
06-03-2002, 09:29 PM
#11
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Kim,
In terms of PCA racing the 3.8 kit will bump a 993 up one class to "C" at the very minimum. This assumes that you build the engine to the exact 3.8 RS specs and that the car meets all other requirements to allow it to be considered updated to a 993 RS.
In terms of PCA racing the 3.8 kit will bump a 993 up one class to "C" at the very minimum. This assumes that you build the engine to the exact 3.8 RS specs and that the car meets all other requirements to allow it to be considered updated to a 993 RS.
06-03-2002, 09:37 PM
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A local mechanic told me, that for $14,000 to $16,000, he would rebuild my 1996 993 motor for an additional 70 to 90 HP. That is without forced induction (and according to him, not getting too radical). How does this jive with the reported $10,000 for a 3.8L kit that yields 15HP? I'm confused!
06-03-2002, 10:44 PM
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[quote]Originally posted by Philip in Bham:
<strong>A local mechanic told me, that for $14,000 to $16,000, he would rebuild my 1996 993 motor for an additional 70 to 90 HP. That is without forced induction (and according to him, not getting too radical). How does this jive with the reported $10,000 for a 3.8L kit that yields 15HP? I'm confused!</strong><hr></blockquote>
Phillip,
I am not going to tell you there is no way he can get 70 to 90 hp out of a streetable 993 N/A engine but I would be very surprised if this were true. While I don't have any engine building experience myself I have been to enough events and races that if this were possible I think I would have heard about it by now.
A 3.8 RSR engine was made to produce that kind of hp but that is a race only engine.
If you have any more info on his formula I would be interested to hear it.
Thanks
Greg
<strong>A local mechanic told me, that for $14,000 to $16,000, he would rebuild my 1996 993 motor for an additional 70 to 90 HP. That is without forced induction (and according to him, not getting too radical). How does this jive with the reported $10,000 for a 3.8L kit that yields 15HP? I'm confused!</strong><hr></blockquote>
Phillip,
I am not going to tell you there is no way he can get 70 to 90 hp out of a streetable 993 N/A engine but I would be very surprised if this were true. While I don't have any engine building experience myself I have been to enough events and races that if this were possible I think I would have heard about it by now.
A 3.8 RSR engine was made to produce that kind of hp but that is a race only engine.
If you have any more info on his formula I would be interested to hear it.
Thanks
Greg
06-03-2002, 10:54 PM
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Greg -
I bet my car is only 20 more HP at most more than yours and Jerry's car. The other mods mufflers, cats and air box, you guys have already done. I did all the mods at once that is why I picked up around 40 hp. Plus my car I think was 100 pounds less that Jerry too at mid-ohio.
Bill.
I bet my car is only 20 more HP at most more than yours and Jerry's car. The other mods mufflers, cats and air box, you guys have already done. I did all the mods at once that is why I picked up around 40 hp. Plus my car I think was 100 pounds less that Jerry too at mid-ohio.
Bill.
06-03-2002, 11:23 PM
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The 993RS engine has the following upgrades: Bore/pistons/(new P&Cs cylinders) increased from 100 mm to 102 mm with the standard 993 76.4 mm stroke, crankcase cylinder bore increased from 107 to 109 mm which takes you from 3600cc to 3744. In addition, O rings inserted in the bolt holes of bearing blocks 2,3,4 and 5 to prevent vibration of anchoring bolts, piston spray nozzles from 993TT, grafal coated as the 993TT, increased intake lift from 12.0 mm to 12.5 mm, increased exhaust lift from 11.0 mm to 11.1 mm, cam chain sprockets and driver flanges one piece, intake and exhaust passages widened by 3 mm, alternator and fan off one belt, rubber engine mounts, with Varioram and hydralic valve lifters.
All of the above takes torque from 330 Nm @ 5000 to 355 Nm at 5400, with HP going from 272 to 300.
If you import a 993RS or 993RS CS into the states all this comes as part of the package + a lot more, a heck of a lot more. Damnm why did I order that Service Information Technik on the 993RS, and 993 RS CS <img src="graemlins/c.gif" border="0" alt="[ouch]" /> .
All of the above takes torque from 330 Nm @ 5000 to 355 Nm at 5400, with HP going from 272 to 300.
If you import a 993RS or 993RS CS into the states all this comes as part of the package + a lot more, a heck of a lot more. Damnm why did I order that Service Information Technik on the 993RS, and 993 RS CS <img src="graemlins/c.gif" border="0" alt="[ouch]" /> .